Integrated Shootout: Rogue Tempest/Cary Sli80 sig

Anyway,
Thanks for all the comments, guys.
I threw the Rogue back in last night, and (no NOS tubes received for the Cary yet) I am confident that the Cary, while certainly MORE transparent and possessing a more capable drive than the Rogue, simply sounds more like HiFi, whereas the Rogue sounds more like music. My opinions of the Rogue v Cary sound seem to be in absolute conflict with Chelly's ideas, but hey, that's what makes my ears golden, and Chelly's brass (JUST KIDDING, REALLY). Anyway, I'm waiting on some 40's vintage 7308's and 6sn7, as well as some loaners from 2 of the coolest members of Audiogon (you know who you are). I think that once I get the Cary going with some nice tubes, it will shine. I shudder to think what would happen if I could keep the much more neutral sound of the Cary and it's superior drive and transparency, but get the presence, and soundstaging of the Rogue... Anyone interested in the TOPIC of this thread, please stay tuned, as I promise to document this competition fully, and hopefully get some other locals involved, so as to get the all important second opinion.

I got some loaner Amperex 7308s from Dekay (thanks David) and some loaner Sylvania 6sn7-GTB from Musicdoc (thanks John)and put 'em in the Cary. This was a BIG help. THe upper level harshness is gone, and there is some more air, and more depth to the soundstage. OK. The depth is not quite as deep as the Rogue, which still sounds more natural, however, I have noticed that the bass of the Rogue in ultralinnear isn't as tight as the Cary's bass, even when the Cary is run in Triode.

Rogue Tempest:
A really natural tone, a but fuzzy, good presentation (soundstage deep but confined laterally to the space between the speakers with most recordings), a bit laid back, perhaps a tad rolled off, somewhat languid, pace-wise, and somewhat loose, somewhat bloated bass.

Cary Sli-80 Signature:
Less natural sounding (JUST A BIT), no Fuzz whatsoever, good presentation (soundstage wider but not quite as deep) Images, while more defined, sound more artificial, not laid back, Even throughout the frequency range, nice pace, (a toe-tapper for sure), and nice, tight bass.

So, until I cn find some nice warm 6922 tubes, the Rogue still has my heart, if not my Audiophile brain.

The Magnum pumps the Bass and loses the Fuzz. That is a good description ! That is one of the biggest improvements I heard was a pure, clear high end.

OK!!!
I FINALLY received the tubes for the Cary.... Sylvania VT-231 (6sn7),NOS 40's vintage, and some more Amperex 7308s.

WHile I was waiting, Dekay's 7308 (also Amperex) have opened up nicely, (I wonder if he used them at all?) and Musicdoc's Sylvania 6sn7 GTB tubes sounded pretty fine as well.
Basically, after a week of listening ONLY to the Cary, I was in Heaven. Clean, Clear, accurate sound. I really started to like the Cary.
About 2 weeks ago, I had the pleasure of seeing Nickel Creek in concert in a relatively small hall in Columbia, SC. I went straight home and played their CD, which contains a live track. Sound, timbre, air, all almost exactly like what I had just heard!! AMAZING.

HOWEVER. Upon listening to the Rogue, again, I was awash in all the emotions of being there in the flesh, what the voices sound like, the ambiance of the hall, if a bit colored, was so engulfing...

The Cary is like a picture of a Jackson Pollack painting, taken with a Zeiss lens, and printed on the best paper. Pure. Accurate. Completely and totally representative of what was in front of that expensive lens when the shutter snapped open.

The Rogue is more akin to standing in front of a Jackson Pollack painting in morning light with someone else's glasses on. Immediately you can appreciate the majesty, the size, the texture; the colors aren't the same as through the Zeiss lens in perfect light, and are perhaps a bit blurred, but upon gazing for a brief time, your eyes adjust, and you see it clearly. The difference is night and day.

THe new tubes are a step foreward, but I don't think it's going to change this Pinot Noir to a Shiraz.(preference)
Unless something drastic happens re: the new tubes, I'm keeping the Rogue, which seems to love music just a bit more than the Cary.

as always, YMMV.

Joe

Joe: I had never used the tubes except to check that both sides were working when I received them (I purchased 10-12 of these and only used one or two in my previous Audion amp). I had mentioned to the previous user that they needed a mininmum of 25-35 hours for the bass to kick in (don't know if he ran them this long). A "rougher" sounding (but good) 6922 type tube is the older Mullard. I do not have any matched pairs on hand, just singles. If you don't end up using the 7308's, send them back my way as they are half of a matched quad that I may find use for in the future. As far as the Cary goes, I have not heard it, but have never been a Cary fan in the past (with the exception of a power amp that they had years ago that sounded like an AR modified Dynaco Stereo 70). I also prefer a somewhat blurred presentaion, which sounds more like live music to me.