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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Sherod

It is interesting this top end airiness. I have given this much thought. I agree with Steen this is added by the capacitor. The VSF even does it, at least compared to the CAST. Part of this resonance we are used too though, so it seems normal. On different music I have asked myself is that normal for the cymbals to be in front of (and louder) than lead singer? The answer of course is no. Yet the cymbals sound so real on the high resonance foil cap.

Duelund VSF does this much less than for sure Ampohm or any other foil cap save Jensen Copper Paper Tube. (that I have heard) Nothing against Ampohm at all as thetubestore is selling them as replacement for vintage parts and they are excellent for that application.

I would say that Tony Gee seems to like caps that tilt the sound upward or adds air? Not saying this is wrong. Tempo likes the Mundorf Supreme better than the Silver in Oil and I agree. Of course I think they were using vintage Tannoy's and I am using vintage Klipsch so both horn speakers which do not like or need a tilt?

Irish did you come from stranded plastic wrapped speaker wire? (before Duelund) I may upgrade the speaker wire before going above .5 in the crossover. ($$$ you know) I am going to try the Duelund as speaker wire before installing in the speaker. This for sure has peaked my interest.

Sherod
I know what you are feeling nothing like spending money on a lateral move or something not as good. I have a use for the Ampohm so not frustrated. Have you tried Duelund wire in the speaker? For me the copper Duelund for the woofer has been one of the biggest bangs for the buck. Might brighten your day on "upgrades".
sherod
1,690 posts
 
I haven't tried the Duelund wire, but I did wire internally my speakers with a special pure copper wire designed by Marigo Labs. It has some type of silk or other natural covering and has nothing artificial in its composition. The wire has a very natural sound to it and with a single Duelund VSF copper on the tweeter, the speakers have never sounded so natural and lifelike. This particular Marigo wire was custom-designed exclusively for Green Mountain Audio. I was able to get a custom-made set for my minimonitors because the owner of Green Mountain gave Marigo the approval for me as a personal project in that I wouldn't be considered a competitor to Green Mountain.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Sherod

That' good on the wire.

More listening tests on the Ampohm vs. Duelund. (still waiting for more Silver wire) I just installed a fresh set of (output) tubes for the coming final tests.

It is unbelievable the difference in one cap in the amp. The Ampohm has it's positives. The Ampohm has what Tony calls "see through" this is in the mid's and highs in my mind. The Duelund cap might as well be on a different planet as far as tight tuneful bass. The Ampohm a sloppy mess at the bottom.

As soon as the back ordered wire (and VSF cap) get here I will give another listen but at this point for the life of me can not understand Ampohm at 12 and VSF at 12.5?????

The Ampohm is wispy and the mind focuses on higher freq. (where it does sound good) when the bottom is so loose. The Duelund is thick solid and has an extremely solid foundation that allows you to enjoy "all" that is going on.

I just do not get it, to me this is not even close?

I look forward to what Jimmy has to say about the Duelund CAST Silver.

Once the wire and VSF are here I am going to do a Jensen Copper Paper Tube vs. Duelund VSF. I expect a much closer competition than vs. Ampohm. I agree with Jimmy on what I have heard so far those both are the top caps.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Still waiting???

Parts just not here yet.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Parts came in today.

I am testing sound wise the more broke in Ampohm. I will test exactly when the silver wire is installed in second speaker. Listening to Tchaikovsky just a huge difference.

On Jimmy's website there is a comment from a new CAST owner saying

"It sounds dull,no dimension, small soundstage.
Thanks,"

I can understand where this person is coming from the CAST are a shockingly low resonance cap. They do not add anything I can hear of, to spice or colour things. I actually went up to hear if the tweeter was working. (and this was compared to VSF)

The Duelund parts have eliminated a few hundred pieces of vinyl I had. They can make the upper freq so clear it amazing but this will also show when the source is not good. You have no doubt.

What is good about low resonance cap.
1 Very dynamic.
2 Quiet, much less noise
3 Tight, accurate, sound with solid bass.
4 Instrument separation and accuracy

What is not so good about low resonance cap
1 reveals upstream weakness. (such as worn vinyl or digital harshness)
2 No echo to smooth out sounds
3 Does not give a added air to sound like high res caps.

The huge downside with high res caps is the resonance, yes can add fullness to the sound of some instruments but this is not done uniformly just at the freq of the resonance. This is done at the expense of upper and lower freq. in my experience.

I can not get the stock wire out fast enough. So it will be out tomorrow.
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