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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
theaudiotweak
2,805 posts
 
Undertow,

Certainly appreciate your thoughtful input on these very difficult and time consuming evaluations. In my own experience I have found that the addition of bypass caps in speakers results in a loss of precise focus and change in the harmonic structure. Its as if I am hearing two slightly different crossover points and the alignment is off. I also know from my own experience that patience is a virtue when it comes to breakin time. That there is going to be a long melding process in the combination of two different devices mechanically and chemically. How long did you allow for breakin of each cap and how long for the siamese pair? What was your motivation to add the Mundorf to the original installation of the Clarity MR?
Tom
face
516 posts
 
Tom, I have the same experience when bypassing in speaker crossovers. And after experiencing MR and CAST caps, I find the S/O to be one of most over rated caps for speaker crossovers. Otherwise, my experiences mirror Undertow's.
dgarretson
2,616 posts
 
If a small cap is necessary to pad up a base cap to precise value in crossover, consider that MR is newly in production in small values .1uf-.68uf. This would allow the "bypass" experiment to be made using like capacitors.

Dave
ClarityCap N. American Sales Agency
theaudiotweak
2,805 posts
 
Dave

Are you saying to measure the value of the main cap. A cap that is is supposed to be 10uf and measures 9.5uf then you would add the same brand and type of cap in this case .5uf. This is exactly what I did some years ago with a set of Dunlavy's and was disappointed with the overall outcome. I did not mix brands or types in the bypass section. I did change much of everything including the resistors[greatest improvement] and inductors[some] caps[kinda of a letdown] The low pass section required a 120uf cap which I built up from about 30 3.2uf Hitachi film caps that I felt were used sucessfully in other projects. These caps were a different brand than all the rest but were never used together to create another value. I will pickup some MR's now that they are available in smaller values to compare in the tweeter section now used. Tom
dgarretson
2,616 posts
 
Tom, there is no consensus of opinion among the several respected OEM designers that I have spoken with about this. One likes a single cap selected to a strict tolerance, another likes to parallel caps of roughly equal value but hand-selected to make tolerance, a third likes to pad up a base cap using .1-.33uf to make tolerance. I suppose that with this third approach it might be difficult to separate the effects of bypassing from the effects of making tolerance. Then of course there is Tony Gee, who likes small bypass caps and also combinations of different types in mixed ratios for flavoring. So far I have limited experience bypassing MR in crossover. I did try an MR base cap with a .01uf/200V Russian teflon. That combination was a bit edgy. I'd like to repeat that experiment with .01uf/350V Russian silver mica, which has a sweeter treble.
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