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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
I agree with all that you have said Undertow except in the older Klipsch with the foil caps autoformer.

The Klipsch foil in oil were the second best next to the Duelund VSF in the midrange.

The vintage Klipsch even had a iron core wax paper inductor. (wax paper being the key to reduce resonance)

Bob Crites uses just Sonicaps (which are very different from original) and an autoformer and inductor supposed to be exactly the same and charges $285 for AA's. My guess is it would cost around $500+ to even match original with foil caps of equal sound.

I do agree with you though in the sense my Linn speakers used dirt cheap parts around $50 for everything.

I bet if one looks the trend is to cheaper parts in the cabinet all of the time.

My crossover costs (not including parts not kept)

2 Duelund 2uf VSF $167.17
2 Duelund 2uf CAST $334.34
2 Duelund VSF 13uf $535
2 2.5mh Duelund WPIO inductors $437.61

Total x2
$2948.24 Plus 20 feet of Duelund Silver wire .5 $250
10 feet of Duelund copper wire $45

Total $3243.24

I can see why companies are looking cheaper! I love the sound of them but do understand why speakers are not made with expensive parts. Use Linn level parts and save $3200 each pair of speakers. Very inticing when the speakers "look" the same.
undertow
1,033 posts
 
Here you go... This is the company I could not think of, Duelund and Mundorf mixed on this one, for a cool 155,000!At least at this price you no matter what get something beyond auricaps or solens!
http://www.tidal-audio.de/english/startenglishprodukte.htm
face
516 posts
 
Peak Consult also uses Duelund crossover parts.

FYI, my girlfriend's $200 Cambridge Audio bookshelf speakers even use Bennic film caps. Something is wrong if speakers costing 100 times as much are using parts of the same quality.
roxy54's avatar
roxy54
8,024 posts
 
I owned a pair of Spendor 9/1 speakers which cost around 6 grand in the early 90's. When I decided to upgrade the crossovers myself, I found that they were full of cheap Bennics also. I put in a bunch of Mundorf and Sonicaps and new wiring and the difference was very noticeable.
duelund_coherent_audio
110 posts
 
We see a clear tendency among our business clients, that they are typically founded and run by an enthusiast, who also handles the design of the components and perhaps even the purchasing of items for production. These are the types of companies that make out the vast majority of our business sales. Larger corporations where parts are bought by the thousands, typically do no approach subvendors such as ourselves.

I don't mean to say, that larger corporations do not make good products, just to say that a lot of the smaller firms out there see development very much like a hobby, and would like to know if cap rolling, changing inductors etc. etc. make a qualitative difference.
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