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Amp shootout.....Tenor 75wi verses Berning ZH270

in a recent thread there was much discusion of the above 2 amps, whether the Berning was indeed an OTL, and which one might be better.

i have no opinion as to whether the Berning is an OTL. but today a Berning ZH270 owner brought his amp over to compare to my pair of Tenor 75wi's. my system is OTL friendly, with easy to drive speakers, so the Berning's acknowledged advantage in driving difficult loads was neutralized.

these amps have very similar power, the Tenor is 75 watts into 8 ohms, the Berning is 70 watts into 8 ohms. otherwise it is not really a fair comparison....the Tenors are $19900 a pair, the Berning $4500, the Tenors weigh 70 pounds each, the Berning weighs about 10 pounds.....it seems like Goliath verses David. the result is somewhat closer than that.

we played three different discs and each of 3 people listened to their disc in the sweetspot. the Berning owner felt that the Tenor had a more dimentional sound, deeper soundstage but felt the Berning was equal in bass extension and detail retreival. the independent listener felt the Berning was excellent for the money but not in the league of the Tenor in any paramter. my perception was similar to the independent listner; that the Berning, at $4500, is amazing in it's top to bottom excellence, dynamics and musicality.....but....does not do things like the Tenor. the sense of space, detail in the soundstage, texture and microdynamics of the Tenor are at a whole different level.....and they better be for $15000 more.

like the Berning owners, i am a shameless Tenor lover and consider the Tenors better than any other amp i have heard at any price, assuming a reasonably easy load to drive.

the Berning is more like a $8k to $10k amplifier.....and Berning owners should be justifiably proud of their amps.

i did think the Berning had slightly more bass slam than the Tenor, but with much less bass articulation and extension than the Tenor.

we spent the rest of the enjoyable afternoon listening to some great vinyl......an enjoyable time had by all.
mikelavigne
del
31 posts
 
You know, I completely forgot about the feedback switch on the Berning when at Mike's - we just ran it at the normal setting. I can say that I much prefer the normal setting to medium or low feedback settings with my ML SL3's - the sound turns soft and muffled to my ears compared to the norm setting. (It drives my SL3's beautifully with no problem at all, by the way.)

Oneprof: This is the first tube amp I have owned, and I do not have a broad experience in tube amp listening. The other two participants in our session did not notice any of the negative characteristics you mentioned. We all commented on how good the Berning sounded - it was really neutral in a system that ruthlessly (I wonder where Ruth is?) reveals any coloration. The independent listener commented that the Berning seems to have a great combination of the organic sound that tubes give plus the versatility of driving difficult loads and low maintenance/hassle usually found only with solid state gear, and was amazingly good for the price.

What I learned most from this interesting (and enjoyable) comparison was that the Berning will provide a neutral organic sound like (but not as good as) the Tenors with the advantages of a much lower price and more flexibility in the choice of speakers. However, if one's goal is to assemble a state of the art system, the Tenors (not the Berning) are at the end of that road - but buying the Tenors should be accompanied by a commitment to buy the best of everything else in the chain, otherwise it is like buying a Ferarri to go check the mail.

Allan - My feelings will be hurt if I am not invited to the Berning prototype shootout!

Cheers,
David
danner
202 posts
 
Very interesting thread - I agree that more like this would be great. However, I'm glad I didn't get to hear the system, lest I be forever dissatisfied with my own.
allanbhaganinfo
121 posts
 
David, you forgot the feedback switch, oh no, you have to go back now, we need to find out what it's like with lower feedback with this system :)
Understandable in your system, feedback was preferred but with this other system, I think low feedback might have been "IT".
Tenors I think are 0 feedback.
Feedback on the Berning could bring it closer, only one way to find out.
We await your second coming :)

You'll be on top of the list for that shoot out :)

Allan
mzn50
180 posts
 
But ya have to admit with the level of front end components and cables that were there, nearly any amp will sound amazing !

just something to think about !
oneprof
147 posts
 
David,

The reason I asked about the feedback setting is that on my system, the normal setting seems to be a little too 'dry' or maybe 'analytical'. I end up running mine in the medium setting most of the time. On the other hand, the most noticeable sonic changes when switching from one setting to another don't really correspond to the changes you all pointed out between the Tenors and the Berning, so it might not make any difference.
By the way, why hasn't anybody mentioned strapping two Bernings to run as monoblocks and comparing that to the Tenor monoblocks? I don't know that much about electronics (I just know what sound I like!), so maybe this wouldn't be appropriate. I know it would give the Bernings a slight edge in power over the Tenors. Does strapping amps not designed as 'true monoblocks' result in an inferior sound compared to true monoblocks?
Again, interesting and informative thread. Unfortunately, it makes me really want to get a pair of Joule or Atmasphere OTL's to compare to the Berning, which I was planning anyhow, but I need to upgrade my cables and interconnects, just got a new CD......and so on.

John
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