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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
irish65
170 posts
 
John,

The potting compound I was referring to was the 3M DP270. So yes you mentioned the product that I have used. As I am sure you saw it is a relatively small tube so it will take a few to do the job.

I am sure Ait will be able to provide you a contact for the ABS but TDL Plastics has what you are looking for.

I have potted inductors and it does benefit the North Creek inductors as they do have some noise.

You may benefit more from some of the DIY sites as they have more info for what you are doing.

I will add, and this is not intended to offend, that when a project of this undertaking is in it's conceptual phase it is a mistake to say what brand of caps, resistor, and inductors you will use. Having a few caps by different manufacturer's, of the same value to evaluate, would be better than going in blind saying I am using this brand of cap.
Yes you solder it in and it may sound better but it only sounds better than the cheap cap that was already in there.

I understand you have a budget. However, it would be wise to do the xover in stages so you can get the best bang for your buck. If you want to try the the Clarity MR cap then compare it to a Mundorf Silver/oil. Keep the winner and sell the loser. This way your comparing caps that are more equal with each other than the extremes of going from a cheap cap to a very good cap. I also mention this because you stated your concern about the Clarity MR having a "slight focus on the lower treble". How do you know if you can live with this possibility long term? And if not how much will you have to spend later to try and fix it with cables or an amp?

In the end you want your system to cause you to go out and buy more music.
irish65
170 posts
 
Rfogel8,

The Mundorf Silver/Oil caps and Goertz 12AWG copper foil inductors are a very good combination. Unfortunately for you to take a step forward in sonics you will have to spend more.

The Cast Duelund cap you purchased will do it. You will know what the buzz is all about when you hear them.

I have built my own speakers, having access to a manufacturing facility, and have tried more caps and inductors than I care to mention. In the end I chose the Duelund Cast Silver for my Xover. I also use a Scan Speak for the mids.

If you have an inductor in series with the tweeter than I cannot recommend the Cast inductor enough. They are dead quiet, you will hear more ambient info, and they sound so natural.

Yes they are pricey.
irish65
170 posts
 
John,

Ait gives good advice with sourcing out the vacuum pump for the compound.
ronnjay
36 posts
 
I have used a kitchen pressure cooker hooked to a reasonable priced vacuum pump from McMaster Carr to evacuate air and remove bubbles from exoxy and potting varnish. Seems to work very well. Good luck.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
John

I agree with Irish65 in a big way. I have been away awhile and have not read everything but the Duelund inductor shocked me at how much better it was than stock or the North Creek I was comparing as well. (the stock was a wax paper thin wire inductor)

Most speaker use a VERY cheap inductor that has no way to deal the resonance.

My feeling before I heard it was the inductor was not that important after all how much high freq noise could be caused by the inductor?? Boy was I wrong! Lots!

I believe the reason for this is that most inductors are just garbage! Everyone seems to treat this part as an after thought. So a massive improvement from top quality and junk.

I do not have CAST inductors like Irish but if I had the $$$ I would. I have Duelund WPIO. There is no reason not to have CAST inuctors except $$$. In the case of the inductor CAST is just awesome at blocking noise. I have not heard CAST as an inductor just a CAST cap so base that comment on that.

I also agree with Irish on you really go on a thread like this and you can narrow your list but I would buy a few choices till I heard the differnce. Only you can tell what is worth it and what is better.

One thing I did to save money was always buy one cap or inductor first. That is how this started comparing just one Duelund VSF and Mundorf parts. I order the VSF with the idea I am just throwing some money away but let's hear the fuss.

Not sure how much Frederik liked this buying one at time but they are expensive.

You really can not know what you will end with till you hear them.

The key thing in this thread is start with a set of speakers you REALLY like to begin with. I think you may find you are in essence done with trading speakers after that. (so likely your last speakers)

I bought Sonicaps, Mundorf Supreme's and Silver and Oil, North Creek inductors, Jensen Paper in Oil and of course the Duelund VSF, CAST and Duleund WPIO inductors.

What sounds like budget saving idea buying cheaper parts ends up costing more. All of the parts are gone or not used except the Jensen and Duelund parts. All at a loss of course.

When this thread started I was not thinking of blowing a wad on parts!

For example I expect there will be wayyyy more difference in a Duelund inductor and stock inductor than Jensen Copper Paper tube and Duelund VSF.

Tweeter caps is another good area to test as this part really matters as well.

Irish65 I am going to reread you part about series tweeter inductors. I have not replaced mine yet. You have got me thinking about that part???
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