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Amp shootout.....Tenor 75wi verses Berning ZH270

in a recent thread there was much discusion of the above 2 amps, whether the Berning was indeed an OTL, and which one might be better.

i have no opinion as to whether the Berning is an OTL. but today a Berning ZH270 owner brought his amp over to compare to my pair of Tenor 75wi's. my system is OTL friendly, with easy to drive speakers, so the Berning's acknowledged advantage in driving difficult loads was neutralized.

these amps have very similar power, the Tenor is 75 watts into 8 ohms, the Berning is 70 watts into 8 ohms. otherwise it is not really a fair comparison....the Tenors are $19900 a pair, the Berning $4500, the Tenors weigh 70 pounds each, the Berning weighs about 10 pounds.....it seems like Goliath verses David. the result is somewhat closer than that.

we played three different discs and each of 3 people listened to their disc in the sweetspot. the Berning owner felt that the Tenor had a more dimentional sound, deeper soundstage but felt the Berning was equal in bass extension and detail retreival. the independent listener felt the Berning was excellent for the money but not in the league of the Tenor in any paramter. my perception was similar to the independent listner; that the Berning, at $4500, is amazing in it's top to bottom excellence, dynamics and musicality.....but....does not do things like the Tenor. the sense of space, detail in the soundstage, texture and microdynamics of the Tenor are at a whole different level.....and they better be for $15000 more.

like the Berning owners, i am a shameless Tenor lover and consider the Tenors better than any other amp i have heard at any price, assuming a reasonably easy load to drive.

the Berning is more like a $8k to $10k amplifier.....and Berning owners should be justifiably proud of their amps.

i did think the Berning had slightly more bass slam than the Tenor, but with much less bass articulation and extension than the Tenor.

we spent the rest of the enjoyable afternoon listening to some great vinyl......an enjoyable time had by all.
mikelavigne
allanbhaganinfo
121 posts
 
mikelavigne, again you're so right, let's face it, at $4500.00, there has to be some compromises in the Zh-270 compared to the Tenor 75wi, I would have to concede that with the right speaker the ZH-270 cannot be in the same league as the 75wi.
Yes, NOS tubes will make the Berning better, yes, the ZH-270 used in the comparison was 6 years old and not the latest but even with any changes, I think the Tenors with a pair of $80,000.00 speakers will certainly always be the ultimate.
Bernings guys have to understand that it's the total match and system, not only the amps that are in question, Tenors, like their customers, are in a different league.
The ZH-270 was not design for that league, it was designed as a amp that will work in most systems, had the shootout been in DEL's home using his speakers, the out come may have been a lot different.
So Berning guys please understand, the ZH-270 is leagues ahead with anything else in it's class but the 75wi with the right speaker is in another class, and that's all the Tenor guys have been saying all along but some of you Berning lovers have not been listening to the whole sentence.
Who in their right mind would buy a ZH-270 and use Kharma Exquisite 1Ds, albeit might be a super great value but when in this class value is only a concern after the match, I am sure to persons in this class, the Tenor is good value.

The ZH-270 is not quite in this realm, what the ZH-270 does is sound remarkable with almost any speaker at a unbelievable price but when compared to a 75wi with Exquisite 1D, remarkable against this combo, falls a little short, an that's all the Tenor guys are saying.
The Tenor guys know that they are out gunned running your, Spendors, Sound labs, Acoustats, Wilson's an such but the Tenor guys don't care, this is not their class of speakers.

Let's face it guys, there's not one Berning owner with the keys to the executive washroom, it might bother you guys but that's life :)
hififarm
92 posts
 
I am a tenor dealer and think the amps are a good 19,000 amp but if you want the amps that stand alone at the top you need to audition the Audio Tekne tube amps.You also need to be prepared to spend heavy to aquire the best.
tubegroover
2,320 posts
 
Hi Hififarm

How heavy and where are these amps on your site? All I could find was a pre-amp at a modest 16K. I'm sure the heavy hitters and the rest of us are curious. It seems you have taken the lead in the search with such a statement.

I thought this started out as a friendly comparison between an over achieving 4.5k amp and the Tenors. Maybe a "best amp in the whole wide world" thread should be started before it gets too far off track and the ss guys DO show up!
mkb001
2 posts
 

Allanbhaganinfo,

I am a bit confused with your last post regarding your notion of "league and class". Why can't Berning guys think that the ZH270 is in the same league or class as the Tenors given the "total match and system"? Why do Tenor guys have to use $80,000 speakers and not have "to worry" about running Spendors, Sound Labs, Acoustats? See what I mean?

Does it not ultimately come down to preference so why get hung up on the $$$$$$$ of a system? Last year's Absolute Sound system in New York by all accounts was a dud and so was this year's Million Dollar System at CES.

I learned a bit from this discussion and I wish more discussions were as good instead of the run of the mill "what is the best this or that" baloney that is so prevalent on the internet these days.

jtinn
1,124 posts
 
Fatparrot: My statement regarding "power or transformer" when talking about Atma-sphere, should have specified the MA2's for power at 225 watts.

I am enjoying this thread and am excited for all the loyal owners of Berning amplifiers. You own a product that deservedly has your loyalty and the manufacturer should be pleased.
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