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Amp shootout.....Tenor 75wi verses Berning ZH270

in a recent thread there was much discusion of the above 2 amps, whether the Berning was indeed an OTL, and which one might be better.

i have no opinion as to whether the Berning is an OTL. but today a Berning ZH270 owner brought his amp over to compare to my pair of Tenor 75wi's. my system is OTL friendly, with easy to drive speakers, so the Berning's acknowledged advantage in driving difficult loads was neutralized.

these amps have very similar power, the Tenor is 75 watts into 8 ohms, the Berning is 70 watts into 8 ohms. otherwise it is not really a fair comparison....the Tenors are $19900 a pair, the Berning $4500, the Tenors weigh 70 pounds each, the Berning weighs about 10 pounds.....it seems like Goliath verses David. the result is somewhat closer than that.

we played three different discs and each of 3 people listened to their disc in the sweetspot. the Berning owner felt that the Tenor had a more dimentional sound, deeper soundstage but felt the Berning was equal in bass extension and detail retreival. the independent listener felt the Berning was excellent for the money but not in the league of the Tenor in any paramter. my perception was similar to the independent listner; that the Berning, at $4500, is amazing in it's top to bottom excellence, dynamics and musicality.....but....does not do things like the Tenor. the sense of space, detail in the soundstage, texture and microdynamics of the Tenor are at a whole different level.....and they better be for $15000 more.

like the Berning owners, i am a shameless Tenor lover and consider the Tenors better than any other amp i have heard at any price, assuming a reasonably easy load to drive.

the Berning is more like a $8k to $10k amplifier.....and Berning owners should be justifiably proud of their amps.

i did think the Berning had slightly more bass slam than the Tenor, but with much less bass articulation and extension than the Tenor.

we spent the rest of the enjoyable afternoon listening to some great vinyl......an enjoyable time had by all.
mikelavigne
tubegroover
2,320 posts
 
Mkb001 - "Why can't Berning guys think that the ZH270 is in the same league or class as the Tenors given the "total match and system"?

This isn't as important as to convey to folks what a great product the Berning is. If I paid 20K for an amp, I'm not too sure I would want it compared to one at 1/4 the price, would you? It seems Mike's system was assembled with great care and love with the ultimate goal of serving the music to the highest level that reproduced audio is capable of.
Cutting edge, State of the Art, Edge of the Art whatever definition you want to use. When you listen you just know something is more right than what you are typically accustomed to. The commnents above from all tell us this. I would just love to hear it period. Price isn't the issue, enjoyment is. We have made it an issue and tried to quantify price with performance=enjoyment. My system is a fraction of Mike's and although I may ultimately enjoy his more, I still enjoy mine as it too serves the music.

Nothing about the Berning has been diminished by this comparison and the outcome. Quite to the contrary, its reputation should grow especially when more get a chance to hear it first hand and make up their own mind. The fact that this design has elicited enough attention for it to be compared to a 20K amp in a complimentary system should be enough for readers that haven't heard either to sit up and take note of this great product. It is how I came to be a Berning owner and I stand firm about that choice.
allanbhaganinfo
121 posts
 
Ohhhh boy.
It seems that there are a lot of Berning owners that are reading this thread and not joining in, now it seems that they are joined in an e-tar and feather plan for yours truly, for seemingly conceding to the Tenor/Kharma.

I really can't say any other thing than, there are 3 guys saying it's somewhat better, they heard it, I can't argue with that.
There is one guy in the thread saying, the ZH270 is just a great $4500.00 amp and that's all, it's obvious he has not heard the ZH-270 and maybe does not believe the 3 "reviewers" like I do. I can tell you this, it's either as good as they say $8-$10K, or it's better.

So to make this short, at this time I am giving the benefit of the doubt to the guys that were there.

Now, my idea for a real blind test goes totally ignored, why???
twl
3,251 posts
 
I am a Berning owner and I can tell you right now I would love to have someone give me a set of the 75w Tenors. I have the "lowly" MicroZOTL which is only 1 watt/channel,$750, and sounds like a million bucks with high eff. spkrs. I think this amp is the top contender for the best value for the money. Like the other Bernings, it has the sound quality of amps several times its price. I'm not going to put it head to head against the Tenors, but it has whacked a few high priced amps off the shelf that I have compared it to. Pure Class A, no feedback, triode ZOTL, with a volume control so you can run direct source input. I'll put my vote on the new Berning Monoblocks for the next shootout. In the meantime, if any Tenor owners would like to magnanimously donate me a pair of 75w amps, I would really appreciate it.
del
31 posts
 
As one who was there, I would have to say that the difference in sound between the two amps was not subtle - the Tenors were clearly the more satisfying. I think tubegroovers comments about Mike's system are right on point - it has been assembled as an organic whole, with a clear purpose, and Mike has, through both luck and effort, achieved a wonderful sounding system - really magical at times (we listened to a 45prm recording of Louis Armstrong performing St James Infirmary that lingers in memory, wonderful even there, as the best recorded music expereince I have ever had).

My main purpose in taking the Berning over there (other than as an excuse to hear some good music on a great system) was curiousity about just how good the Berning would sound with components that gave it no place to hide. I certainly did not expect it to sound better than an amp costing 4x as much in a system built around that amp.

What I did discover, to my delight, is that the Berning sounded great. I can build around it by upgrading my other components for quite a ways up the ladder before having to make a change in the amplifier, because I have quite a ways to go before the Berning is the weak link. I have only been at this about 18 months, and so am enjoying the journey quite a bit. They are many roads to Rome, and many combinations of components to create a great system. Refining those choices is a lot of fun, not to mention listening to some great music and meeting terrific people like Mike. This has been a rewarding thread for me, as well, because I have gotten to know some other Berning owners.

Cheers,
David
jcaudio's avatar
jcaudio
237 posts
 
I think we should keep this thread limited to the feedback on the Tenor and Berning amps. If Audiogon allows dealers who are also the sole distributors for other products to state an amp they sell is better than those mentioned, we defeat the idea of this forum. It becomes nothing more than an advertising venue.
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