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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
theaudiotweak
2,801 posts
 
Houstonreef,

Listen first to a selection you are most familar with. Mute the system but leave the volume control un touched.

Then do the following. If you have square tubing as pillars. The unused adjustment holes in the pillars should be filled with short brass machine screws. Thread these in and snug them up do not use any adhesive. Fill all these holes leave none open. Make sure these are 100% brass and not nickel plated. At this stage do not attempt to fill the tubes.

Then listen to the same selection at the same volume. Post what you hear. Tom
chadeffect
586 posts
 
The audiotweak makes some very good points.

There is most definitely a point at which you can over damp and make the sound lifeless. This not only applies to vibration control but even to RF and EMI filtering. Unfortunately there is only one way to find that happy balance and that is to try!

I did use sand in the speaker frame. It did make a nice improvement. I didn't fill the frame completely. Sand can kill off some aspects of the sound. For me it cleaned up some noise and tightened things up without choking the sound.

Is the latex material you mention light blue? I seem to remember it is extremely expensive. A few manufactures use it in critical places. I think Ref3A used it? It is said to be remarkable stuff.

Duomike, which dynamat did you use? There are quite a few different sheets.

Personally I like Mundorf silver/gold in oil and the silver in oil caps. If you can stretch to Duelund caps they do something I have not heard anywhere else. A kind of organic naturalness and image density. While mundorf can have a slightly etched or hyper quality to detail the Duelund doesn't draw attention to it while remaining detailed. Unfortunately they are very expensive and cannot be called a bargain. But they are very fine.
duomike
76 posts
 
Chadeffect,

don't remember the name of the stuff. Did do that tweak in 2001 in Germany. It was some stuff car audio guys use to dampen panels inside the car. 1 was app. 1mm thick black bitumen with one side with aluminium foil for heat protection I guess.

Houstonreef, since you are very serious improving the sound of your speaker I got another tweak which makes a huge improvement at almost no cost at all. Time align the tweeeter with the midrange. If you are interested I can give you the details.
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
Chadeffect,
I don`t even consider the Duelunds "expensive" anymore.Their performance relative to the cost is such a high ratio that I believe they are a very high value purchase.

The best sounding system I heard at CES a few days ago used the Absolare Passion amplifier and linestage(driving the Rockport Altair). Both of these Absolare components use the Duelund CAST capacitors.The sound in that room was stunningly good.Just fantastic!
Regards,
theaudiotweak
2,801 posts
 
VB 1-x from Cascade Audio is the paint on or spray on thick acoustic paint that helps seal off the bad sounding stuff bleeding thru your drivers or cabinet. I like this product because it drys hard and is not a soft damping energy storing energy robbing soft material. Please keep in mind a speaker cabinet is a passive radiator. Even a sub box crossed over at 50hz has harmonics generated and passed thru the cabinet enclosure..it also is a passive radiator.

As for the horn speakers. If there are holes in the stand then there is discontinuity in the material and the stand. The sides with the holes are disconnected from the other sides. If your thought is to ground these rails to the floor which is the best for sound quality then you need to have a controlled surface material that transmits vibration in a linear fashion and time. The Brass screws completes the connection within the vertical rails. There is so much more that can be done in this manner...to drivers, enclosures, components of crossovers as well as the entire crossover mounting method it's all a continuum. Most manufacturers don't go to the level that an informed hobbyist will. Actually many of these vendors see no value or lack any understanding of some of these methods mentioned here.
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