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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,479 posts
 
Well I upgraded the caps and resistors in my Coincident Total Victory III speakers. What a complete hassle and hard work! The wires inside the speaker are very, very short making it darn difficult to take the tweeter out. Nor could I pull out the crossover board behind the tweeter without cutting wires from other drivers going into the board. The other drivers are all in their own enclosures with the wires traveling through small holes from one speaker section to the next. The cut wires were so short it was darn near impossible to re-solder those cut connections. Oh my what a job.

Behind the tweeter I replaced three Solen Fast Caps and three sand cast resistors. I replaced them with Mills MRA12 resistors and Obbligato Premium Gold caps. I simply did not have the funds for Duelunds.

The bottom of the speaker has two more resistors and two more caps. I replaced the Solen Fast caps and sand cast resistors with Mills MRA12 and Mundorf Supreme.

What I will do someday is remove everything from the speaker and make an outboard crossover board. When I do this, I will use Duelund parts.

The speaker is said to have only one cap in the signal path for the tweeter and midrange. Well, those resistors and caps beyond the one arguably still influence the sound even if part of several Zobel Networks.

Perhaps a little early to tell the result as the caps are fresh with no burn in. Right now the highs and mids are more open and apparent. Things seem a little rough and hard right now so I will report back and more burn in.
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
The crossover in the 4 way(9 driver) Coincident Total Victory III is more complicated than the much simpler Coincident Total Eclipse(whew! lucky for me). Grarnnyring your effott will pay off for you. Your fine upstream components will reveal this. You have excellent speakers.
Charles,
tasouli
39 posts
 
Grannyring

I have been following this forum very carefully and, just as I was about to buy two 5.6mfd Duelund caps for my Coincident Total Eclipse series 1 speakers, I discovered that my crossovers much more closely resembled your Total victory IIIs rather than Charles1dad's Total Eclipses.I am very much in the same position as you Grannyring. Either I compromise and use smaller caps in my speakers or I build external crossovers for them. I would like to ask you though why you chose the Mills MRA12 resistors and Obbligato Premium Gold caps you did rather than Duelund resisters and, say, JB JFX Premium caps? I ask this because this is a route I'm thinking of going down now instead of an external box crossover. In your view, would this in any way be a better way to go if I was replacing internal parts?

Many thanks, Tas
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,479 posts
 
I chose the Mills and Obbligato parts based on experience with them in the past and user reviews. They are just very good for the money. Not the best, but good.

I am not sure of the results yet. The parts are still burning in.

I am putting together a plan for a nice outboard crossover what I will make in time. I plan to use Duelund parts for this.....including inductors.

I am not sure how important the parts are, caps and resistors, in the Zobel networks. I don't want to spend Duelund money if these parts are less important and don't give a nice level of sonic improvement. I just don't know and can't experiment unless and until the crossovers are external. Just too much of a pain to swap parts as the current crossover boards are configured.

I am quite impressed with the quality of the build in my speakers. Very nicely done!
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
Grannyting, (Bill)
I wish you were a neighbor of mine, it would be a lot of fun hearing each other's systems and also temporarily swamping components between the two to try out.
Charles,
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