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Should I Upgrade My Krells

Here are the details. I have a Krell 150A Amplifier, Krell 250P Pre-Amplifier, Cary 303/200 CD Player, Vienna Acoustic Bachs, AudioQuest Viper XLRs throughout. Some Very Thick Monster Cable speaker wire (M100 series I think). I bought the Krells off of E-Bay in ABSOLUTE pristine condition 1 1/2 years ago. I will say that my Bachs are HERE TO STAY as I'm a silk dome tweeter fan as well as a Vienna fan! IMHO, nothing sounds better than Vienna. . . again MY personal opinion. Also, the Cary is quite phenominal!!!

When I purchased the Krells on E-Bay, I paid $2,150.00. When new, both units went for $4,800.00.

It has been said that sometimes Krell can be a bit too agressive and that may be true (I don't know with authority). If this is in fact the case, I believe that since the Bachs and Cary are very much laid back, this offsets the brashness of the Krells. I think the Krells do well in producing bass on my Bachs especially since they have no bass driver, but rather are ported on the back. IMHO, I feel as thought the midrage is positively intoxication and the high end can be likened to mercury. If I had one complaint, it would be imaging. I wished that my system was able to do this more effectively!!!

I went to audition the Mozarts side by side to the Bachs at my local Tweeter store. To my amazement, I truly believe the Bachs sounded better! Further, the set up I heard at the store which included B&K electronics and a no name cd player sounded better than my home system???? In short, I experienced far better imaging than my home system???? Can B&K be on the same level as Krell in this aspect?? I know my Cary is not in question as it's about as good as it gets at the price point I paid.

This all being said, should I replace the Krells? I don't want to sacrifice what I already have in Bass, Midrange, and Treble. I want to improve the imaging as I know that can be done and have heard it demonstrated!!

Any advice would be welcomed!

Itch
itch
jmcgrogan2's avatar
jmcgrogan2
6,346 posts
 
I would say yes, replace the Krells. I've never been a Krell fan. I am a fan of Vienna Acoustics however. I've recently sold my Beethovens and my Strauss are due in anyday now. I can't wait. I currently use a Classe CP-60 preamp with a Threshold T400 amp, which I believe is much more musical combo then the Krells. Krell is probably more dynamic and powerful, but too aggressive, and to my ears, a tad harsh. I use Tara Labs Decade cables.
I would think a tubed preamp may allow you to keep the Krell amp and be happy. Audition a Cary, CJ, or BAT to name a few. That may be the easiest way to go.

Regards,
John
nrchy's avatar
nrchy
2,124 posts
 
I have had several different Krell amps and pre-amps and have not found them to be harsh or overly aggresive. These are words which are typically applied by people who have never owned Krell or have a preconcieved notion of what everything should sound like based on what they currently own. For some reason many people feel the need to denigrate Krell equipment. Maybe if they put it down they will feel better about their equipment.

I will admit that every time I bought a newer piece of Krell it sounded better than the piece it replaced. If a person were comparing their new pre-amp to the older Krell maybe some of these discriptions would apply, but they would not be a criticism as much as a comparision.

I have been ridiculed by certain unnamed members of the AudiogoN community for liking Krell but it was by people whose discussion has proved them to be little more than idiots. Krell makes a good product, but it will not be for everyone. That doesn't make it bad. There are hundreds of appliance makers or auto makers each making different versions of the same thing. It is not the case that only one of them is good and all the others suck.

Based on all of this this or inspite of it there are tons of options for you. I am of the opinion that once your electronics are of a reasonable level cables will make the most obvious and cost effective improvement. Even spending outrageous ammounts of money on cable. The level of improvement is bigger with cables than it is with spending a comparable ammount on electronics. Everyone has their favorite cables. I tend to like Purist and Cardas with the Krell equipment I own.

Best of luck in your search. You will find as many opinions as you find responders to your thread.
judit
217 posts
 
The guys at tweeter are pretty cooperative. Why don't you ask them if you can swap your Krells into their setup?

Did you listen to your own CDs or new material?

It is not uncommon to hear differences in imaging characteristics among different speakers of the same line using the same electronics. Smaller speakers with fewer drivers can have better overall coherence and soundstaging but generally at the expense of bass extension.

How much attention have you paid to speaker placement? Are your speakers up against the back wall or out in the room? How far apart are they? This would be the first experiment I would perform.
tok20000's avatar
tok20000
608 posts
 
Get a GamuT D-200 amp, and never look back.
I have a GamuT D-200 driving the Mahlers, and it is remarkable.

KF
plato
1,543 posts
 
Three things mainly affect imaging: room acoustics, location and position of speakers in the room, and maintaining correct polarity between the respective left and right channels. On the last point, I have seen speaker pairs where one speaker is wired incorrectly and the polarity is reversed. As you might imagine, that scenario totally destroys imaging and needs to be corrected by reversing the positive and negative speaker wires (or rewiring one speaker correctly). If I were you, I'd get a hold of a test CD that has channel phasing tests and put the system through its paces. You could also check to see that you have not inadvertantly reversed the polarity of one channel somewhere in your playback chain (most likely at the speaker or amp).

If you find that everything is functioning as intended then it would be time to experiment with speaker placement and fine tuning their position in the room. Look at what furniture (if any) you have between your speakers; and the symmetry and similarity of the acoustic environment between the respective left and right speakers.

If your CD player has tubes, maybe it's time to install new tubes. Possibly, a decent equipment rack might help, as well.

I wouldn't start swapping equipment until you figure out exactly why your system doesn't image properly. Even cheap gear can image well and your gear is not what I'd call cheap...
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