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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
salectric
747 posts
 
Charles, everyone reading this thread knows you replaced a Solen with a Duelund CAST and noticed a big improvement. That's great and I am glad you're happy, but it's hardly surprising. Solens are, to put it politely, not a very high threshold to surpass. Here's an analogy: if someone replaces the Pioneer transistor amp he's been using for the past 20 years with an Audio Research preamp and amp, he will be very pleased with the improvement. That doesn't mean, however, that ARC is the best sounding amp in the world. Without hearing other high-quality amps, he may be quite happy, but if he hears VTL, VAC, Emotive Audio, CJ etc., he will realize that the ARC equipment has flaws and he may prefer another brand instead.

It's the same thing with capacitors. You need to try a lot of different caps and in various applications to gain a full appreciation of each cap's sonic qualities. A few months ago I posted something in this thread asking people to describe any negative qualities they hear in CAST caps. As I recall, Grannyring and I were the only ones who had any complaints. That's not because we have super-human hearing. It's because we have spent a lot of time comparing different caps.

And that is why I say in order to gain a more complete, a more nuanced understanding of what a cap sounds like, you have to compare it to other caps of similar quality. That hardly seems like a controversial statement.
reynolds853
383 posts
 
Johnk,

I would like to add to the present conversation by saying that I have learned a lot from this thread and it is by far the one on Audiogon for which I am the most thankful. I consider this thread and those who contribute to it a tremendous asset.

As a research engineer I understand performing design of experiments to gain an understanding of the contributions and/or interactions among system components, but here I think it comes down to how one defines success. If I were a speaker designer I might be inclined to define success by achieving a cost/performance target. In that case I would follow a process such as you describe to make sure the performance of each part within the system was worth any added product cost.

As a hobbyist, however, I define success simply by the pleasure derived from my system. Like Charles and some others here with their systems, the changes I have made resulted in profound improvements that met my definition of success and I too would consider going back to the original crossover a waste of my time. I simply have no motivation to do that, whereas for you it would to make perfect sense. To me the main thing to remember is that there are many people on this forum with many different priorities and interests.

Best wishes,

John
reynolds853
383 posts
 
Salectric,

Your points are well taken, and your advice always appreciated I might add. Like Charles I too originally changed from Solen capacitors. In one set of speakers the path was Solen -> Mundorf Silver/Gold/Oil -> Duelund VSF Copper. In my present speakers the path was Solen -> Clarity MR -> Duelund CAST Copper.

My decision to go to Duelund CAST was based on my experience with those earlier caps, from reading selected posts on this thread from those who expressed similar opinions of those caps, and from their subsequent opinions of the Duelund CAST. My goal was to combine the attributes of the Duelund VSF (tone, richness, harmonic structure, naturalness) with that of the Clarity MR (speed, very low noise floor, spacial retrieval). In my system I achieved those goals to my satisfaction with the Duelund CAST capacitors and am quite happy, and as I mentioned in my previous post, am therefore not inclined experiment further. I'm just enjoying listening to my system.

Thanks again for your reply to my earlier post about the capacitor values for my current crossover project. I was able to determine that the 3.3uF with 0.22uF bypass capacitor was indeed the original configuration. Just to be safe, I'm going to order the new caps in a 3.52uF value. As you mentioned the difference between the 3.3uF and 3.52uF values would likely be inconsequential in the speaker's first order crossover, I'm more comfortable staying with the designer's original values and since the CAST caps are made to order it's just as easy to order a 3.52 as it would be to order a 3.3.

Best wishes,

John
tasouli
39 posts
 
Salectric

your comment to Charles is reasonable, and similar to what I did in my speakers (replacing Solen caps with far better ones) and the result has been profound. The thing is, as Charles has said, many of us aren't here to research - we just thank god for the ones (like you) who are and follow your lead. The point has been made that, apparently, we are all just "putzing about". Given the results that can be achieved I find that description sublimely ridiculous and inflammatory.

If I were paying more attention to the Johnk's of this world I'd now be buying a new pair of speakers (or two of three) instead of paying very close respect and attention to the efforts of people like you and trying to follow your lead.

Anyway, I've said too much. Thanks again for your efforts.

Tas
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,249 posts
 
Tas and John(Reynolds853),
You two clearly understand my point and frame of reference. Salectric, I've always found you comments insightful and worthwhile, but here's the difference. You and I have different missions or objectives. I want to achieve the best sound I can with my current components and system overall at a reasonable cost, that's it(just fine tune what I own).You have taken a more rigorous and analytical approach and are much more interested in comparing various parts and components. You are clearly a more intense audiophile then I am and that's perfectly fine.I simply have no interest in the constant comparision of this vs that and patiently notating the sometimes subtle points of each product.

Your Pioneer-ARC analogy is on the mark as regards to Solen vs Duelund CAST.This is why I use terms such as stark contrast and profound improvement. I never have or will I proclaim CAST the "best" capacitor, I have no way to prove that(and what would it mean anyway?). My simple reason for posting on this thread was to make others aware that very significant SQ improvement is available merely by upgrading to these wonderful capacitors. That is my only intention. I don't care that another cap is as good or worry that there's something out there that's even better.It isn't worth the constant comparision process, but for you or Grannyring it is and that's great, I enjoy reading both of you and your findings.I spent a lot of time listening to music and anything that increases the natural/organic character is what I want.The CAST did this in abundance. Could other caps do the same? Sure some others can, but it's there with the CAST now, so no motivation to experiment with another capacitor, I'm happy already.This wouldn't satisfy your quest and you'd be compelled to try other capacitors(I understand that).

I won't lose sleep worrying if the Jupiter Cu foil is better than my CAST. As far as I'm concerned they're both excellent products and either would be a major upgrade for the vast majority compared to most "stock" capacitors.
Sal, you and I have different motives and goals and neither is wrong. This is a passionate hobby and there are many ways to obtain happiness with one's audio system.Sal I'll continue to read and appreciate your contributions.
Best Regards,
Charles,
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