Hovland HP-100 vs. CAT SL1 Ultimate: Feedback

Hi Kalan I believe your situation of ouput .vs hight input sensitvity in not isolated to the Cary. I had the same problem when I mated the Cat with a Plinius SA 100 mk 3 (which is 1 volt sensitive input to full power) to my 91db sensitive Dunlavy SCIV. If you want to continue using the Cary slams, I would go with less sensitive speaker as this will balance things out.But be careful if you want to use a low output cartridge as low efficiency speakers can sound lifeless with lowlevel source.Or switch to another amp with a less sensitive input.regards Tim

Tonestudio: Please tell us what power amps you used with the CAT pre-amps you have had. Musicluvr just mentioned that he had similar "mating" problems with the CAT and his Plinius amps. (Thanks, Musicluvr) I am sure that you are right about the CAT not being the at fault in a system in which the CAT and the power amps actually electrically mate properly with each other, but what about a sheer electrical mismatch?

I have to consider that other pre-amps like the cj LS16 sounded down-right subdued in my system, the likelihood that changing speaker placement is really not the issue. The (early version) First Sound Presence pre-amp sounds laid back and smooth in my system. My M3A is not aggressive with the speakers right were they are. I have a Lamm LL2 in for an audition and will start listening tonight. This will give me no fewer than four other pre-amps to compare with the CAT's sound in my system.

Don't get me wrong; I am not claiming that the CAT is an aggressive-sounding piece. I know that it does not sound that way in lots of systems. The CAT just does not have the right output impedance for my pwr amps.

The M3A "over-drove" the ASL Hurrican DT-200s also. This is not limited to CAT pre's and Cary pwr amps by any means.

Thank you, Musicluvr, for your feed back about your CAT experience. I suspected an output-to-input mismatch--just as you confirmed--because I had similar experiences with a Wright Sound dedicated phono pre-amps several years ago. It's nice to get that second experiential corroboration

I am beginning to wonder if many folks are overlooking the matching characteristics of the pre-amp to pwr-amp interface. Everyone pays lots of attention to amp-to-speaker matching, but the pre-to-pwr match involves much of the same issues; they're just at a much wider range of allowed mating than amp-to-speaker. Both involve output impedance and gain relative to input impedance and sensitivity.

Kalan, I thought that pre-to-amp gain matching is possible after market, via adjustments (pre out or power/in) without compromising the design of the unit. Maybe a tech person could help (Sean??).
Although I didn't suffer from harshness with a CAT Ult. driving my amps, I still couldn't play over 9-10 o'clock without raising the neighbourhood. I got the input sensitivity on the power side adjusted. Worked fine, as far as I could tell.

Any easy, low cost fix that you can use to at least the impact of attenuating the signal to help gain match a high gain pre like the CAT to a sensitive amp is to use the Rothwell in-line 10dB attenuators. I have them between my DAC and my CAT, so that I will still benefit from the high overall gain to use a low output MC in the phono stage. If you don't have that issue you can place them between the pre and the power and benefit from increased s/N ratio as well. About $50. I went from an 8-9 o'clock position, to 10-11, using a Llano Trinity 300 amp and relatively inefficent speakers (Vandy 3Asigs.)

Swampwalker and Gregm: Thank you for your tips. My Cary dealer asked the main tech guy at Cary (Kirk) about reducing the SLAM-100's input sensitivity. He said he could increase negative feedback but does not recommend it. Also, a resistor at the input would screw up the amps' sound, apparently. Cary does not recommend modifying the SLAM-100's.