Hovland HP-100 vs. CAT SL1 Ultimate: Feedback

Tonestudio: Please tell us what power amps you used with the CAT pre-amps you have had. Musicluvr just mentioned that he had similar "mating" problems with the CAT and his Plinius amps. (Thanks, Musicluvr) I am sure that you are right about the CAT not being the at fault in a system in which the CAT and the power amps actually electrically mate properly with each other, but what about a sheer electrical mismatch?

I have to consider that other pre-amps like the cj LS16 sounded down-right subdued in my system, the likelihood that changing speaker placement is really not the issue. The (early version) First Sound Presence pre-amp sounds laid back and smooth in my system. My M3A is not aggressive with the speakers right were they are. I have a Lamm LL2 in for an audition and will start listening tonight. This will give me no fewer than four other pre-amps to compare with the CAT's sound in my system.

Don't get me wrong; I am not claiming that the CAT is an aggressive-sounding piece. I know that it does not sound that way in lots of systems. The CAT just does not have the right output impedance for my pwr amps.

The M3A "over-drove" the ASL Hurrican DT-200s also. This is not limited to CAT pre's and Cary pwr amps by any means.

Thank you, Musicluvr, for your feed back about your CAT experience. I suspected an output-to-input mismatch--just as you confirmed--because I had similar experiences with a Wright Sound dedicated phono pre-amps several years ago. It's nice to get that second experiential corroboration

I am beginning to wonder if many folks are overlooking the matching characteristics of the pre-amp to pwr-amp interface. Everyone pays lots of attention to amp-to-speaker matching, but the pre-to-pwr match involves much of the same issues; they're just at a much wider range of allowed mating than amp-to-speaker. Both involve output impedance and gain relative to input impedance and sensitivity.

Kalan, I thought that pre-to-amp gain matching is possible after market, via adjustments (pre out or power/in) without compromising the design of the unit. Maybe a tech person could help (Sean??).
Although I didn't suffer from harshness with a CAT Ult. driving my amps, I still couldn't play over 9-10 o'clock without raising the neighbourhood. I got the input sensitivity on the power side adjusted. Worked fine, as far as I could tell.

Any easy, low cost fix that you can use to at least the impact of attenuating the signal to help gain match a high gain pre like the CAT to a sensitive amp is to use the Rothwell in-line 10dB attenuators. I have them between my DAC and my CAT, so that I will still benefit from the high overall gain to use a low output MC in the phono stage. If you don't have that issue you can place them between the pre and the power and benefit from increased s/N ratio as well. About $50. I went from an 8-9 o'clock position, to 10-11, using a Llano Trinity 300 amp and relatively inefficent speakers (Vandy 3Asigs.)

Swampwalker and Gregm: Thank you for your tips. My Cary dealer asked the main tech guy at Cary (Kirk) about reducing the SLAM-100's input sensitivity. He said he could increase negative feedback but does not recommend it. Also, a resistor at the input would screw up the amps' sound, apparently. Cary does not recommend modifying the SLAM-100's.

Finally heard a Hovland HP-100 in my system. It mates impedance- and gain wise quite well with the Cary SLAM-100 pwr amps, but it just sounded congealed and colored to me. I am sure it does not sound this way in most systems. It may just reveal other mismatches in my system, for all I know.

Since hearing the CAT some weeks ago, I've sought out other pre-amps: Lamm LL2, First Sound Presence Deluxe 4.0, and my AI M3A was always on hand. The Hovland and FS overlapped in my system for two days. The First Sound sounds quite a bit better than the Hovland in my system in every regard: speed, truthful tonal balance, inner detail, dynamics, etc. The Hovland also could not deliver the bass extension or impact of the CAT, the Lamm LL2, the AI M3A, or the First Sound. The HP-100's somewhat lacking bass showing may be the result of a poor synergy elsewhere in my system. Don't know. I loved the look and feel of the HP-100. It does not have clunky outboard power supplies that you have to route stiff cords to and place some where near the main pre-amp unit like so many other pre's.

To my ear in my system, the First Sound is a revelatory experience; it's so life-like that it takes one aback. Gone are many elements of electronic music play back that I had accepted as givens: circular sheen around female vocalists when amplitude increases, confused haze when cymbals crash, obvious dynamic compression, etc. The FS makes sense of the music instead of just presenting a clean signal. It is very clean, but it's also eminently musically meaningful. It does not roll the highs off at all. Details are there in abundance; it just doesn't scream at you to reveal them.