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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
jetrexpro
506 posts
 
I should also mention that I have tried only the Wima Polypropylene caps in my power supply. Which leaves many that I have not tried like Clarity caps for instance. I know many many amps use Polypropylene caps so they must sound very good to many people.
justubes2
203 posts
 
I have tested the Duelund silver foil 0.01uf, burned on the cable cooker for 5 days.

Impressions so far are no hint of typical silvers clarity and extensions, not that it is not clear sounding as slightly upfront sounding. Fairly detailed as a bypass and it reminds me very much as a mundorf 0.1uf silver oil, maybe just a tad better.

Basically, easy listening cap but does not beat the vcap TFTF as a bypass in neturality, depth and deep bass at half the price. Yes, a small bypass can have very surprising impact on low bass slam.

It has been removed from critical duties.
jetrexpro
506 posts
 
Justubes2, Could you fill us in on your bypass cap values?
Lets say you have a 22uf cap in your power supply, what values and brand would you choose as your bypass caps? Thanks jet
justubes2
203 posts
 
Jexrexpro,

I have experiented a little on bypassing, the 1% or 10% rule of thumb did not apply when using exotic caps as bypass.

A 0.001% and 0.0001% made very noticeable changes which follows the sonic characteristic of the high quality bypass cap. When i mean exotic, they are duelund cast, vcap tftf, vcap cutf, mundorf silver oils and silver golds.

The bypass values were 1uf for duelund cast copper, vcap tftf.
0.1uf for mundorf silver oil and silver gold oil. 0.22uf for vcap cutf. 0.01 for vcap tftf and noe duelund pure silver foil.

For what i found, even a 0.01uf on a 10,000uf cap gave a very strong sonic character of these exotic caps which i have used in the signal path of my preamp prior to using them in the power supply as i have gone passive and had all these caps sitting around. I would never have spent such money for osu bypassing using these caps, maybe a 0.01uf as cost can go to a fair bit.

Interestingly, these exotic caps which have a very strong flavour on it's own exhibited the same characteristics in the psu section as a bypass.

There are caps which i have used a main signal and bypassing which never stayed in place for more than a few song selections such as auricap, hovland, mundorf supremes, siderealcap, almost all of the multicap range with the exception of the RTX.

I would say a 0.1uf would be enough to gain a large amount of the bypasscap sonics for a 22uf main cap presuming that is the cap in the circuit that is critical which youbwould have found by swapping of lower quality caps.

It is most important to know what you want from the sound and have a good idea of the reference quality and characterics of good sound as opposed to just ore sparkling highs , warmer and more natural mids and the favourite, better bass as one can easily get carried away.

The duelund copper cast for example at 1uf bypassimg a 10k uf reseviour in digital gave in 2 different systems a superb analogue sound reminiscent for vinyl playback.

It was exceeding beautiful, pleasing and enjoyable. If i had not swapped in a vcap tftf lying around o the same value, i would never have know what i was missing.

The vcap alone did not work as vocal became bone bare and lacked a the presence of the duelind or a mundorf silver oil. Bass, depth, highs and blackness was to die for with the vcap bypass and would fair better playing new age or some instrumental music.

The choice of bypass would be best selected having a strong reference of what you want and how your system sound currently.

Each a every different system will have a different selection. However, over the years tweaking my system and also a friends system, i found that when the improvement made by equipment, room acoustics etc and it gets to a point where the selection of these finishing touches are large and become almost identicle, meaning that the sonic traits such as bypassing with impact 2 different systems very similarly.

Different systems meaning a back a few years ago, 1 system was warm with full bass and the other clean, tight, leaner and tilter towards the shrill side. What worked for 1 didnt work for the other, now 2 systems have converged to react very similarly to tweaks such as cap bypassing.

My presonal recommendation would be to bypass using a 0.1uf to 0.47uf cap, duelund cast cu, vcap tftf and cuft, mundorf silver, gold and oil series. These have probably have very strong traits but not over extreme and still rather balanced sounding.

Interestingly, the Jupiter copper foil is a very balanced and fine sound cap when using on its own in the signal path. Being extrement well rounded in all sonic parameters dont seem to impart much as a bypass.

The new duelund 0.01uf falls also in that category, adding clarity,,mtexture as a bypass, but does excel in any one area as a bypasscap.
justubes2
203 posts
 
Sorry for the typo's and i am typing from a tablet and almost impossible to review in a small posting box.
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