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High value, high efficiency speakers for SET amps

Hi, Gang,
I know that some of what I want to discuss here has been dealt with in other threads, some of them quite old, but I wanted to see if any of you fine, knowledgable folks are willing to help update and consolidate some of this info in a more current thread.
I am currently running my new Audio Note Kit 1 300B SET amp with a pair of Reference 3A De Capo speakers. I think it's a fine pairing and I am really enjoying what the 300B SET experience brings to the table in terms of musicality and emotional connection.
Still the De Capo, while supposedly an easy load due to its crossover-less design (only 1 cap on the tweeter with the mid-woofer directly coupled to the amp), is "only" rated at 92 db efficient, and based on the most recent Canadian NRC specs, that rating may be optimistic.
So, I am toying with the idea of trying a pair of more efficient, deliberately SET-friendly speakers in my rig, something that might also play lower and with greater dynamic swing than the De Capo's. Note that the De Capo's have served me well and I am very fond of them, but I can't help but wonder if my lovely Kit 1 would shine even better coupled to a VERY easy to drive speaker.
Devore and Audio Note are obvious options - the O/96 looks really tasty. Unfortunately, both of those choices are out of my budget, which I'm thinking maxes out (for real) at around $1500. I am willing to consider used equipment.
Tekton Lore 2.0: This is the speaker that Eric Alexander of Tekton has recommended when we've spoken on the phone, based upon my medium-small listening room and amp. I've read the epic "Lore vs. Zu" thread elsewhere in this forum, and clearly Tekton has its enthusiastic fans here. What I wonder is whether the Lore 2.0 has the refinement of the De Capo in terms of resolution, sweet high end and imaging. Audiogon'er Mikirob has pointed me to the many rave reviews of Tekton's speakers and I'm definitely interested.
I've corresponded with the Sonist folks (who are super nice) but their really high-efficiency, nearly-full-range floor stander is out of my budget.
Then there's the "vintage" route, going after some used JBL's or other high-efficiency "classics" from the 80's (or '70's). I am not inclined to go in this direction, but mention it because it's been suggested to me.
And then there's Omega. I spoke to Louis some time ago and he recommended his 7XRS hemp cone model. But I know all the raps on single driver designs and I'm cautious, although I would like to hear from any of you who own or have owned Omega's.
I'm in no rush to make a switch but I am very interested in your thoughts. Thanks, folks!
rebbi
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,107 posts
 
"Time to retire the SET limitation cliches."

Charles, c'mon get real.

Are you saying SETs do not have limitations?

Fact is they are the MOST limited of amp designs. One has to adapt in other places to make them work well.

Not to say that they cannot work well when mated with the right gear, but it is a disservice to suggest a SET amp with just a few watts does not have limitations.

Its not a cliche but a fact that just s few watts IS A LIMITATION.

Not an insurmountable one, nor one that might not well be outweighed by other benefits in some cases, but a limitation nonetheless.

One will have to jump through some very special hoops for best results, as Rebbi has recently determined as well.

We all love what we love but let's just keep it real. :^)
mikirob
955 posts
 
I also started on the trumpet at about ten, thanks uncle Bill. Rebbi I have to disagree with your imaging assessment of the Tekton. Now I realize you are in your venue and I am in my venue. If you aggregate all of the reviews of Tekton, I believe all the reviewer's thought the Tektons imaged extremely well. Also, this might be an apples/orange thing, you heard the new Lore Reference, I own the M-Lore and Lore. But I believe the house sound is similar. When I did compare the DeCapo directly against the M-Lore, yes, the DeCapo slightly edged out M-Lore/Lore in imaging, but it was more of a case of spotlighting, which is not the way we actually hear music live. The M-Lore/Lores throw an enormous stage in my venue. Great scale, height, width, depth. All the reviewers agreed on this aspect. When it comes to tone, color, texture, a weighty fullness, harmonic rightness, solid bass, and more...the DeCapo couldn't compete in my room with the 8 watt Coincident Dynamo and Tekton combo. By comparison the DeCapo was thinner and you could tell it was stressing where the the Tektons were relaxed and handling everything thrown at them. I'll give a couple of examples pertinent to this discussion: on the Bach, Stokowski London Phase Four, Toccata & Fugue in D minor, Czech Philharmonic Orchestra, it pretty much starts full tilt violins/violas, then with major thwack descends into deep Cello and Bass strings, then loud cacophony of French Horns and Brass. The Tecktons handled this piece with aplomb, the DeCapo's went yelping down the street completely thin and missing all the power of the deeper notes, as was always the case on the deep end that ultimately affected the balance of the music, what you should hear from a live orchestra when it hits those big moments such as also in Mussgorsky, Gates of Kiev.

Even playing Jazz you would lose a lot: one of my faves was diminished, Louis Armstrong & Duke Ellington/The Complete Sessions/Deluxe Edition, because the DeCapo could not capture all of Mort Herbert's terrific bass, especially the body and volume of air and fat notes floating out, it totally missed the foundation. You made my point with Lorde and that type of music. In sum, to my ears/room the Tekton beat the DeCapo pretty much in every parameter.

We all hear differently. I like the quality of sound top to bottom much better as presented by the Tektons. YMMV and it obviously it does. Same goes for everyone else and that is a good thing. After all, variety is truly the spice of life. Best.
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
Mapman,
It seems you've missed the fundamental point of this current topic. "keep it real"? that's what I and other SET users have been doing. We couldn't be more clear in stating that SETs require appropriate speaker matching. Once achieved, you can enjoy listening to all manner of musical genres. Thus SETs "don't" limit or restrict one's choice of music. The cliché that SET has " limitations" as to what one can listen to is in fact wrong. I can't make it more clear rhan that Mapman. The point Tubegroover's raised concern over had to do with limitation of various music genres. No one here has suggested SETs aren't limited in their ability to drive certain speakers. You may need to reread the above posts for proper context.
Charles,
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,107 posts
 
"We couldn't be more clear in stating that SETs require appropriate speaker matching"

That's keeping it real.

There will be more limitations with more speakers than otherwise.

As long as people realize this, then they should be fine.

Nothing wrong with building a system around an amp if that is what floats ones boat but keeping it real means knowing this will be the case with a SET more so than with most anything else.

For example I thought it inevitable that Reb would eventually choose to dump the Decapos as a result of moving to SET, though I hoped I was wrong. There was false hope that somehow the combo would work out when on paper it seemed apparent to many that that would not be the case.

Now changing speakers to optimize for use with an amp is not not the end of the world, just another choice that we all make all the time, but the fact is the choice of speakers that will perform optimally with a set is much more limited than otherwise.

Most speakers WILL NOT perform optimally with a SET amp, certainly less so than otherwise. Nothing will change that fact.

The good news is that it is probably not any harder to choose the right speakers for a SET for optimal performance than any other kind of amp. The bad news is that one will find their choices more limited. Also those choices will likely tend to be physically larger than otherwise, which might not work for everyone, and also might be quite expensive in the case of the best and largest choices.

Different strokes for different folks. Let's all just be real about the obstacles one is likely to face. Sugar coatings taste good at first but tend to wear off over time.
rebbi OP
1,326 posts
 
Mapman,
You've always said you wanted to see how De Capo's stack up against your Triangle's. I know where you can get a nice pair. ;-)
Oh, and by the way I think you and Charles might want to settle this whole "SET limitations" thing via a gentlemanly arm wrestling match. Or, better yet, you could play "catch" with his Coincident Frankenstein mono-blocks and the first one who drops one has to shut up about SET limitations.

Or something.
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