Phase inverted..why?

said above >>However, if the solution to the phase inversion problem is to reverse the speaker cable polarity, why don't the manufacturers just wire the output that way in the amp.

said above >>Wouldn't reversing the internal wires to the preamp's output jacks put the signal back to correct phase?

My 2c is that there really is no problem to solve because there is no "correct phase" in the general sense. For a single track you can sometimes determine when the mic and speaker are moving in the same direction and some rigs do come with a switch. However, from one cut to the next there is no standard to set your amp's phase to.

Remember that when you talk about phase you always need to ask in relation to what? Unfortunately the recording process is a long and complicated affair. Phase is inverted and otherwise changed many times. The microphone, cables, mixing console, tape machines and signal processors (delay, echo, reverb, equalizers, limiters etc., etc.) might each be wired out of phase with respect to one another. In addition, smaller phase errors (several degrees here and there) may occur within the electronics of any of these components.

Different cuts from one disk will not have a standard phase and even tracks of one tune will not be recorded so that they have an absolute or correct phase.

In addition, the phase of different parts (frequencies) of the signal will change phase to some degree but not 180deg.
This happens anytime reactance is introduced (inductors,transformers, capacitors etc)in the recording and reproduction of the signal.

Also, in some systems if you reverse the polarity of the speaker wires, and hear a difference, you may be listening to more than "correct phase." Check out this article on SETS and reversing speaker wires.http://usuarios.uninet.com.br/~edelima/REASONS.htm

P.s. the comments in my first post are SET and transformers invert phase too and differential amps work either way...

I remain,

If you remain clueless, I must be just plain dumb!

forgive me for being clueless...
but my rudimentary understanding of polarity is that it refers to the +/- charges delivered to the speaker.

As long as both speakers are running the +'s at the same time is there really an issue?

I use a Rogue Magnum 66 currently running to a Rogue m88 and have my +'s on the amp to the +'s on the speakers.

Are you saying that I really should reverse the speaker wires into the amp?

Geoffgarcia,

The Rogue66 inverts phase. So, this is 1 phase inversion.
Does the Rogue 88 invert phase?
If yes, this is the 2nd phase inversion. Hence, no need to cross speaker connections as 2 phase inversions of 180 degree brings you to 360 degrees, which is the same as zero phase inversion.

If the Rogue88 does *not* invert phase, then you have to cross speaker connections.

Hello Geoff,
Yes, like many tube preamps, the 66 is phase inverting. You should reverse the speaker wires on both channels as you state. You should also know that this is a subtle difference and many recordings are phase inverted so you
can't always have it in phase anyway. I hope this helps -- Mark

----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Garcia"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 11:38 AM
Subject: Rogue m66 question on phase

> Hello!
> I read the forums on audiogon and have noticed a question that popped up about your m66 preamp and phase inversion.

> Currently I run the m66 to a m88 and have my speaker cables running + to + and - to -.
> From what I understand from this thread its saying I should run the speaker cables in a - to +, - to + fashion?
> Is this correct?
> Thanks for any help, Geoff