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Reference DACS: An overall perspective

There has been many threads the last few months regarding the sonic signature of some of the highest regarded reference DACS (Dcs,Meitner,Ensemble,Audio Note,Zanden,Reimyo,Accustic Arts) here on the GON. I have been very fortunate to audtion many of these wonderful pieces in my home or friend's systems. I wanted to share, in a systematic way, my impressions/opinions with you GON members for a two reasons: 1)That my experiences might be helpful to fellow members interested in audtioning these DACS. 2)Starting an interesting discussion regarding the different "sonic flavors" of these reference digital front ends. I totally agree with the statement, "if you have not heard it you don't have an opinion". Therefore, I have no comments regarding DACS from Weiss,Goldmund,Audio Aero and Burmester because I have never had the pleasure of audtioning them. I would love to hear from members who have and share their experiences with us. My overall impression is that these DACS(Dcs,Meitner,Ensemble,Audio Note,Zanden,Reimyo,Accustic Arts) can be grouped into two molar categories regarding their overall sonic signature. By the way, all of them can throw a large/deep soundstage with excellent layering in the acoustic space with "air" around individual players on that stage. However, than they start to part company into two major categories. Category #1) These DACS "flavors" revolve around pristine clarity, fine sharp details,speed,very extended top/bottom frequencies,and great PRAT. These DACS never sound "etched" or "in your face" but are more "upfront" then "layed back" in their presentation. The DACS, to my ear's, that go into this bracket are Dcs,Ensemble,Meitner. My personnal favorite in this group is the Ensemble, which I owned for two years. These DACS remind me of the sonic signature of speakers such as Wilson,Thiel,Dynaudio, Focal/JM Labs. Category #2) These DACS "flavors" revolve around a "musical/organic" sense, natural timbres,and an easy flowing liquidity. Their "less forward" presentation my give the impression of less detail, but I think in this case its an illusion fostered by their more relaxed/organic manner. The DACS, to my ear's, that go into this bracket are Audio Note,Zanden,Reimyo,Accustic Arts. I did find that the tube DACS did not have the top/bottom frequency extenstion and PRAT of the SS DACS in this bracket. For me, the Accustic Arts DAC1-MK3 gave me the best of both categories, therefore it is now the resident DAC in my system. These DACS remind me of the sonic signature of speakers such as Magnepan,Von Schweikert,Sonus Faber. Well, it's all just my opinion regarding these digital pieces, but I hope this post was at least informative/somewhat interesting and would lend itself to other GON members sharing their impressions, not about what DAC is the "BEST" in the world, but your personnal taste and synergy with your system.
teajay
rockitman's avatar
rockitman
417 posts
 
04-07-11: Teajay
I agree that for the price the PS Audio pieces offer a good sonic performance, however they are no were close to the level of AA Tube reference DAC on redbook. I just again heard the latest generation PS Audio combo and fine it OK, but nothing to write home about if we are talking state of the art performance.

I agree with Dev, that the AA Tube DAC and MBL reference transport are still my favorite combo compared to everything I still listen to or audition.

The PS Audio doesn't use tubes, so what your saying is you like the sound of tubes ? That really has nothing to do with the D/A conversion, ect. It's just the output stage. For me, tubes color the sound which can be nice. It all comes down to preference and the rest of your system components and how well they work with your DAC of choice. When it comes to top level dacs, we are really talking about the handling of jitter and the analog output stage...The D/A chips are really a moot subject. It all depends on their implementation. For my system, I couldn't be happier with the PW combo. No upsampling required although you can if you want. I play everything Native whether it's 16/44 or 24/192.

In the end, my analog rig kicks any digital rig's butt...that's another subject all together. (wink) When you can listen to a digital rig and not get listening fatique after a couple of hours listening like analog, you have found you digital frontend nirvahnna. For me, that is the PW System.
teajay OP
1,703 posts
 
Rockitman, I'm very glad for you that the PS Audio pieces give you what you are looking for in your system. They also are quite cost effective for how they perform to what they cost.

However, they don't compete sonicly on redbook when compared to DACS like the AA Tube Reference or the Concert Fidelity, which both happen to be tube based. Does that mean I like the sound of "tubes" or that if the right tubes are used correctly it sounds more like real music? I don't like the old euphonic tubey sounding DACS that I have auditioned in the past, however the two DACS mentioned above do not sound that way and perform much better sonicly, for me, then the best SS based DACS.

And your (wink) I find someone silly, the best analog sounds different then the best digital, which I don't think you have heard in your system with the PS Audio pieces, different yes but better, that's just a matter of taste. I have recently tried a couple more auditions with very highly regarded analog front ends to see if the magic of LP's would make my digital front end sound broke and the answer was no. Both are quite good, but different for me and the hassle of LP's makes what ever difference their is even less important compared to listening to alot more music every day.
rockitman's avatar
rockitman
417 posts
 
Hi Teajay,

I have not heard of the DAC's you mention. They sound like they are wonderful. I have been a hi-end digital guy since the mid 90's. I refused to research the analog world. My last turntable was from 1980 and I stopped spinning vinyl around 1985. That said, re-introducing myself earlier this year to analog, I found myself shocked regarding the sound of vinyl. My turntable was not cheap...around $15K with cart. All I can say is that I have not had a desire to listen to digital since then. If I have the vinyl or the CD source, even hi-rez digital, I will opt for the vinyl playback. One thing for sure, records sound like the source intended. In no way can the A/D conversion, even hi-rez digital can stand up to vinyl. Things are lost in the A/D conversion and there is no way to get around that. Auditioning an analog rig in your system and comparing it to your digital front end is a much fairer comparison than auditioning a table at a high end shop with components, speakers different than yours. I am not trying to corrupt you. My system is very highly resolving and the diffrences between analog playback and digital is clear. Different strokes for different folks I guess. Enjoy the music. Cheers !
dev's avatar
dev
832 posts
 

Hi Teajay, you said;

"I have recently tried a couple more auditions with very highly regarded analog front ends to see if the magic of LP's would make my digital front end sound broke and the answer was no."

what did you happen to listen to?

As you know we both have the same digtal front end and I agree it's absolutely top notch and personally my favorite also but I can say without any doubt no way did my MBL & AA come close to my analog set-up. It's night and day and the magic is most defiently there to the point it's been some time now since I have even listened to my cd's so I recently sold it all off.

My current vinyl set-up;

TW Acustic Black Knight table placed upon a custom made Minus K platform.

Two different arm and carts combos;

REED arm, MSL Ultra BC cart and the second one a TW 10.5 arm with a A90 cart.

P.S. I'm waiting to receive some marvelous mono blocks, VAC Statement 450's. I should receive them end of May early June. I made a flight earlier in the year, was a once in a million chance to be able to actually hear these amps with the same speakers and pre-amp as mine in someones home, after having the pleasure of listening to them for three days I was lost for words and left in awe and couldn't wait to place my order.

In relation to red-book, I have a great collection and have no plans of getting rid of them but currently knowing what I know now in relation to the two formats red-book isn't high on my priorty.

Rockitman, I will have to agree with Teajay in relation to comparison to the PS, I also had one in my system for a while, sorry no comparison.
teajay OP
1,703 posts
 
Hi Dev, yes I know that you are waiting for your Vac monoblocks, congrats! Sounds like you finally found what you were looking for in these monoblocks.

Dear friend, this time we will just have to agree to disagree. I have auditioned to very highly regarded analog front ends, each one was around 15k to 20K retail, and I'm sorry I found no magic in their sonics compared to my digital front end. For a matter of fact besides surface noise off the records I found them somewhat lacking in microdetails and did not find them to have more liquidity or ease then what I'm use to in my digital front end. I listened to the same recordings, mainly Blue Note 50's or early 60's, my records that were clean and pristine compared with my redbook cds and liked the cd as much as the records. So, no great magic for me, however maybe with the right analog rig, just the right recordings nice and clean and everything working perfactly that magic still might be in those grooves, however, call me lazy, I like just putting in the CD and listening to music. I have not found the hassles of playing records to be worth it based on sonics alone. I still have over 400 albums that I keep giving away to good homes of friends with turntables who will use them and enjoy them.
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