Counterpoint SA-5000 or First Sound Presence Pre

Wow, quite a vocal thread here! I must chime in for my support for Counterpoint and Michael Elliot. Mikesinger clearly has a lot of unfortunate history with Mr. Elliot but my experiences are much different.

I got a used NPS400 severely damaged through careless shipping by the seller and Mr. Elliot made so much effort to get this unit repaired and upgraded to the level I could afford. And he was very detailed with all the options and benefits. In just a couple weeks I had the amp back and what a pleasant surprise it was over the ARC Classic 150 amps.

As a fan of ARC products since the early 80s, and an owner of many such models, I was quite suprised at how the NPS400 embarrassed the CL150s. The NPS400 was far more tonally balanced, not fatiguing nor forward like the ARCs, and simply put, was a far more musical presentation with the Thiel 3.6, Talon Khorus and Magnepan 3.5 that I owned.

The ARC CL60 which I owned a few years back was quite a good little amp, but neither it nor the CL150s are even remotely close to the NPS400 in sheer naturalness. It just too a change to the Wolcott mono amps to truly bring on a significant refinement over the NPS400 to drive the Magnepans.

I have to disagree that what we need is a company to give us a sound that returns to the ARC hybrid days. No thank you! The SP-11, SP-15, LS2, Classic series, amps, etc.....no thank you! "Yawn, where's the music?" Give me the all-tubed SP-8, SP-10, LS5, VT130/150 amps any day. Like I said, I'm a huge ARC fan here, but Counterpoint simply did a far more musical job than ARC when it came to hybrid products. And yes, reliability is an issue, but I too had some catastrophic events with tubes blowing in the VT130 amp. It was not pretty with power resistors exploding in the process! But I have been fortunate to live only a few minutes from the ARC facility.

I guess until I experience a reliability problem with the NPS400, I can only talk of the positive sides of Counterpoint and Mr. Elliot. Both the ARC staff and Mr. Elliot are first rate with customer support.

John

jes45@aol.com, in case you have not noticed, most of hi-fi shops are slowly going out of business. It has to do with lack of interest and customer rather than just on reliability factor. I also heard rumors that Audio Research is filing for chapter eleven. The small shops are the ones that can really survive. Since there are almost no overhead for small shops, they don't need to borrow much money from the bank.
I would like to suggest that it is your view and not common knowledge that all the Counterpoint gears are unreliable. I think the marketing has more to do than reliability. I believe that Counterpoint lost the market share has a lot to do with product choice. They did quite well before they moved to SS equipment.

i didnt expect the tread to go this way. maybe because i live in san diego and know the background with counterpoint and the owners.

dont get me wrong, the 5000 is a nice preamp. HOWEVER, counterpoints relaiblity as a whole isnt that great. if you have a working one that hasnt gone south, then you are very fortunate.

i have no hard feelings toward mike and his wife. they are very nice people and what happened to them is very, very unfortunate. i would not want to wish that on my worst enemy.

btw, what happened with them is they had alot of $$$$ manufacturing gear that wasnt being used( they tried to be like arc and do everything in house- from metal to silkscreening).

i was looking at a First sound presence last year that had a damaged face plate. i contacted the company ( emanualle) and he offered to replace the face plate (for free!!!) and update the volume pot and check the tubes for a minimal charge...wow....i was impressed.

though i didnt win the pre, the owner was very personable and cared about his product wether new or used..that stuck with me. if first sound came out with a remote pre....i would be interested. btw, mike e. is the same way - very cordial and personable (though his repairs are a little more).

as for myself i use a pse hl-1 hybrid pre. the owner is true gentleman (dean k.) and always willing to discuss his products and upgradeabililty of them ( very reliable gear and upgrades are reasonabley priced).

btw, i use a audible illusions IID for a phono stage. it sounds pretty good and is reliable. if i didnt have the hl-1 then i would go with the ai m3 ( needs a remote imo)

i have alot of respect for AI, they have been around a long time and have built world class product for close to 25 plus years. that says alot in my book.

best regards,

mike

Mikesinger:

When you allege in a public forum that a person has a decade old unpaid bill, you exhibit extremely poor judgment to say the least! And you claim to be a friend.

Further, your statement to this effect confirms my suspicion that you have a hidden agenda which fuels your continuous, speculative criticism of Counterpoint products.

Please ask yourself whether your participation in these exchanges is helpful to people who write to seek assistance with audio related questions.

All I have to add is that my brother had a Counterpoint amp back then that almost burned our parents house down. Admittedly, it sounded tremendous. One of the best amps I've ever heard but...one day we had it on and the next thing we knew, flames were literally leaping out of it. Thank god we were there to put them out. Ever since it has made me nervous about leaving "high end" amps on unattended, though I've never had a problem like this with my Audio Research D-125. Again, it was a great sounding amp. I think is was a S-20. Anyway, the manufacurer did back up the product repairing it and upgrading it to a SA 220. I'm not dumping on Counterpoint because I think they sound exceptional. But that experience with that amp certainly made me nervous about the overall safety of their products. Anyone else have an experience like this?