Albert, the only issue I have is with the new orthodoxy where everyone who listens to reproduced music is somehow expected to hear improvements that I simply do not hear or that appear to me to be so evanescent as to make them at best insignificant, and at worst a hindrance to enjoying the music. As a pursuit that does no one real harm, I really don't care that anyone attempts to refine their systems to the nth degree by whatever means they chose. I do hear differences in systems, but can tell you that they usually are related to main components, the speakers being the usual prime suspects. I can tell you that I heard some systems in a price range I would consider quite high that did nothing for me. On the other hand, I heard some very reasonably priced systems that included what you would consider laughable wire that sounded amazingly good to me. (a system consisting of Naim electronics and Spendor speakers comes to mind, another that was all Rega is also remembered fondly). So my only point, brought out with a regularity that no doubt has a lot of folks here wanting to get their Voodoo dolls out, is that not everyone is convinced of all that has been touted as advancements or improvements in audio over the last decade or so that has come to be known as "subjective" audio. That an argument is predicated on the assumption, such as the one I objected to, that everyone is in agreement over some point and then proceeding with an analogy proves nothing. I remember someone posting many months ago that cables cannot make much of a difference since the signal goes through so much in the way of copper traces and wires inside amps that the last few metres could not possibly make a difference. What you have now is the mirror image argument that since cables make so much of a difference the copper traces inside amps are obviously deleterious to sound quality and hard wiring (no doubt with cult wire) is the only way to go for great sound. All I am saying is wait a minute. Insofar as my cryo remark, don't take it personally, as I have not taken personally the fact that you want to be present at my demise at the hands of the cryo gods. In closing, a lot of people have remarked on AA that 'Agon forums are now as dull as dishwater. I am counting on you and me to bring some life to the discussion without animus. And, in any debate or discussion here, you certainly have a couple of lengths on me since way more people here like you. I guess that's the price to pay for being a curmudgeon, a contrarian and a cheapskate to boot! A price I am willing to shoulder for the advancement of audio...