Atma-Sphere M60 or David Berning ZH270?

Sutts writes:

smaller Victory .... which is really the ONLY Coincident speaker in my humble opinion that can make do with an SE amp <20 watts

I use Super Eclipse Series II with 8 watt 300Bs (Welborne Lab Laurels Ultimate Upgrade) and in my apartment they are superb. Obviously I don't listen at high volumes; and the original poster likes "20 century's big symphony orchestra works" so I can see that he needs more power than I do. We have the same size listening room though.

Sutts, thanks for your insight into the Coincident models you have owned. I was at CES last week and Israel was making nice music with Super E Series III and Manley amps.

Regards,

For those who haven't kept up with everything, Ralph has ALWAYS favored the old chassis of the M60. It's his seminal design, it is HIS amplifier (in any and every way you can think of). If you put a gun to his head and told him he could only make one product, this would be it. As a picture is worth a thousand words, you can see that he has returned to what he believes in. We should ALL be ecstatic about that.

John (Sutts) and I almost always agree, as we do here. So, a classic tube amp seems to be the way to go with the Coincidents. I will say that a good friend of mine ended up with the Coincident Triumph UHS because they were one of only a couple of speakers that we found that could be driven with his absolute flea powered AudioValve integrated - supposedly 25 watts, but it sounds like 3 wpc to me.

Thanks guys. Your advices really helps!!

Swampwalker writes:

"The best way to explain it in terms of your musical tastes (forgive me if I'm way off base, I said I'm no classical fan) is just different readings of the same score, or different character of 2 different, great old violins"

Very good analogy, indeed. As a violin player and 1/2 piano player (I am a amateur though I have attended local chamber ensemable), I know exactly how a violin (though not Stradivarius class) and piano should sound in my room. I can never reproduce the instruments sound in my room with my stereo system. The resonant quality of the sound of a violin just isn't there. I hear more like sound of hi-fi than a real instrument. But different makers of violin do make difference from my mi-fi system. The distinctive sweetness of "Amati" and pure transparancy of Stradivarius can be clearly identified. So Amati as Atma vs. Stradivarius as Bernings (no judgement here of quality just different sound, actually I like both instruments sound depending on what music is played). Regard to "different readings of the same score", are you refering to Bernstein vs. Karajan, Yo-Yo Ma vs. Rostropovich, or Janet Baker vs. Christa Ludwig? This sounds more like "interpretation" to me and after all, Hi Fi, in my opinion, is an art of reproduction not interpretation. But I like your analogy anyway.

Nealhood & Rushton:

What a nice photo! I like it a bit more than the current version of the M60 II.3 and actually I like their old chasis better than the new. The connectors and speaker post are still on the front that makes connection a bit awkward and WAF is low (at least my wife isn't thrill about it). The Atma's may sound fantastic but to me it looks more like a labs equipment than consumer product. In my humble opinion, their products really need a good industrial designer (like Pass Labs XA and X.5 series stuffs). From looking at the photos of Berning, it's also just plain looking as well. "Sound" is the utmost important priority but be sure you can look at it everyday and can live with for a long time.

Trelia writes:

"But, as Spencer pointed out, with my Coincidents, which are incidentally warmer and more full bodied than any other pair you will find out there, the OTL sound does not seem to suit them as well."

I may misunderstand your point, but does "your Coincident" any different than mine? Did you have mod one them? Or are you referring to other brands of speaker?

Also another question for you: does Israel chooses Transformer coupled amplifiers lately may just because there isn't many OTL on the market? Just a guess.

Oneprof:

When I taked to Allan, he only mentioned optional internal silver wiring upgrade. Any other upgrades out there?

Artg:

It sounds we have the similar concerns and reasons to choose Berning (though I haven't 100% decide to go with Berning yet, see below). Berning may not be perfect but it gets 95% things there without other headaches.

Sutts & Metralla:

Interesting. I also have a Welborne DRD 300B (8 watts) ultimate version and pairs with my SE III sounds great with solo and chamber music. It does run out of steam when Mahler is played. Currently, I interchange Welborne with a NAD C272. The NAD sounds good but not great. On music of Mahler, it clearly betters the Welborne in terms of dynamic which Mahler's music really shine. I even open to consideration for the new Pass Labs X.5 amplifier for orchestra music. I know, I know, solid state never gets the sound of tube, but does Berning really outclass Pass Labs in terms of dynamic, attack, smoothness, and transparency where modern symphonic works really need? Do I get 90% of the Berning if I choose Pass?

Have had MA-2's for a period of about 4 years, and the reliability is not an issue at all.
tubes as used by AS are cheap, and the output tubes will last forever.
the game is to not go down below 4 ohms, i have made quite a few combinations with different speakers, and the power output of even the M-60 will drive anything (up to a few) loud enough.
the MA2's did find their waterloo hooked up to a pair of Genesis 501's which happen to be my new pair of speakers..
the impedance is around 1,7 Ohms in the region of 500 Hertz. that my friends is a knock out for any OTL amp.
although the combination still did manage to go loud, the soundstage and the lower mids are lost.
the combination sounded anorexia.
I eventually sold the MA-2's.

As for transparancy and a top end to die for, you cannot go wrong with AS amps.
If you look for warmth and lush sounds look elswhere.

Very recommended.

I heard the Atmosphere and the Berning in the same system but not at the same time(A/B). In purely sonic terms, the Atmosphere edged out the Berning except in the bass. I thought the Berning had more PRAT. Otherwise, in all other matters--heat production,tube replacement,tube biasing,electricity bills,and especially compatibility with a wider range of speakers, the Berning wins hands down. Since I live in Florida, heat production was a crucial factor(I mean ALOT of heat). I ended up with the Berning and enjoyed it very much. If heat and speaker compatibility weren't major issues, I would have bought the Atmosphere amp. You won't go wrong with either amp. Enjoy listening.