2. amps-preamps
  3. 1106022947

Am I crazy - tube pre-amp with receiver??

Hi - I am a newbie (but avid reader of this forum). I have a newbie-like question which arose from some extrapolating I am doing.

I hear you can use the TAD-150 pre-amp with the TA-30 Integrated amp, by using the TA-150 as input to the TA-30, and just leaving the volume knob of the T-30 turned up. I hear that this is supposed to provide some sort of benefit over using the TA-30 alone. What one gets outside of remote control is not clear to me - but I digress . .

I have an old Harman/Kardon 3400 reciver, who's remote control no longer works.

Now - what would happen if I plugged something like the TAD-150 pre-amp into the H/K, and used by H/K as an amp (just keep the volume turned up)? The desired result is to improve performance, incrementally work towards a better system, and regain my remote control.

Would this work? Would I see any benefit?

This weekend, I was told by a stereo salesperson that one could get the majority of tube amplification benefits by going with a tube pre-amp / SS amplifier. So I am putting 2 and 2 together here, possibly to only get 1. Ha.

Regardless, the whole point is to incrementally upgrade - and this is one way I came up with. Thoughts? Is this stupid / insane / waste of time & money?
matthew_s
satch
329 posts
 
Hi Matthew, I don't think this approach will sound better. You would basically be using two pre-amps, the external one and the one built in in your receiver. An input on a pre-amp is designed to take a certain kind of input, let's say 500 mV. It will amplify this to a higher level which is enough to drive a poweramp. What you are doing is amplifying a signal so it's enough to feed a poweramp, and then amplify it again. Not only useless, but you might be overloading the input on the second preamp, which will cause distortion.
However - some integrated amps, or even receivers, have preamp-outputs and poweramp-inputs. This means you can use another preamp feeding the poweramp, or vice versa. I don't know the H/K, so I don't know whether it can be used that way. That might improve the sound a bit, provided the preamp you're using is of better quality then the one built in the H/K.
As for a combination of tubes and ss - I'm using that, a simple tube preamp and a monster Class A poweramp, and I love the sound. But that's no guarantee for succes, I'm sure there are plenty of combinations of tubes and ss that will sound awful. So - listen, and trust your ears.
reubent
6,952 posts
 
If the HK receiver has pre-outs AND power-ins and these two can be disconnected, you could use a tube pre-amp and connect the R&L outputs of the pre-amp to the R&L power-ins of the receiver. This would be the desired setup you seek, but I don't know if the HK has power-ins. Also, I don't know if the incremental benefit would be cost effective.

If your system is 2-channel only, I would suggest waiting until you can afford a quality integrated amp and replacing the receiver altogether. If you want to continue to use the tuner from the HK, just connect the pre-outs or tape out to the new integrated amp.

BTW, I have owned the Cayin TA-30 in both stock and fully BizzyBee mod'd styles. It is very good for the price!

Enjoy,

TIC
john_tracy
341 posts
 
I recently built a new line-stage from a kit. To test it, I connected it into my system ahead of my Cary SLI-80 integrated amp. Surprize; this sounded way better than the Cary alone. BTW - this is one sweet preamp: tranformer coupled with Lundahl trannies, differencial parallel-feed gain stage, etc. The sound was more lucid, more of that PRAT thing. The leading edge of the notes better defined. And QUIET. I'm running the vol. control on the Cary at ~10-11 o'clock. This might not be the case every time, but in this instance running a preamp ahead of an integrated was a sonic improvement and not a small one either. The Cary is now a "power amp".
matthew_s OP
5 posts
 
Thanks guys - this is all helpful.

I am away on business - so I can't look behind my H/K - but I HIGHLY doubt that there is a pre-amp input. My guess was that the pre-amp would "overwhelm" the receiver if plugged into one of the component inputs.

I did not realize some / many integrated amps had pre-amp inputs. Now this is all making sense. Still, in looking at the Cayin TA-30 specs/photos, I don't see a pre-amp input - so I don't quite get how people are using the TAD-150 with the TA-30.

John - cool to hear about your home-built pre-amp. So - does the Cary have a pre-amp in, or are you using one of the component inputs?
bigjoe's avatar
bigjoe
693 posts
 
hey matthew,i wouldnt leap to the conclusion that your hk dont have a preamp in,i vaugly remember that model reciever & i do believe it has it.

what your lookin for will not be a regular looking input but 2 side by side inputs that are coupled from the factory with "jumpers" that look kinda like big ass staples.

if you have these jumpers you simply unplug the jumpers which will disconnect your preamp section from the power amp section & plug your new preamp into the power amp section in place of the jumpers & your in like flynn.

i gotta believe the tad will be a huge improvement from the built in stock pre section in the hk reciever.

dont be afraid to try some creepy stuff with what you allready have as john tracy pointed out in the above post sometimes the goofiest stuff ends up being the best sounding.

mike.
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