2. amps-preamps
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Why does my new tube amp and preamp sound so bad?

Hi: I am brand new to audiogon but I would appreciate any ideas you folks may have. I am a seasoned audiophile with only SS experience. I have wanted to try the "tube" sound for awhile but have just now been able to afford it so I put together a new tube based system along side of my SS. I purchased a used set of Klipsch La Scalas and restored them and powered them via my Adcom amp and preamp. The speakers sounded excellent, great bass! All right, next step after much internet research, but without hearing, I purchased a new Cary Rocket 88R amp and a AES (Cary)AE-3 DJH preamp. There are no Cary dealers within 200 miles of where I live (I know dumb mistake!)Hooked the system up and it sounds terrible. Well I thought the tubes just needed breaking in. After 100 hours no better. The sound lacks any bass and it is very "tinney". It sounds as if a low frequency roll-off filter is present. I contacted Cary and they said substitute the AE-3 for my Adcom preamp. I did and there was an immediate improvement. Cary had me ship the preamp back and they checked it out and could not find anything wrong. I put it back into the system with the same results. Does anybody have any ideas? Could tube rolling be the answer? I have tried different interconnects which made no difference. With all things being the same the Cary preamp sounds terrrible when compared to the SS Adcom. I am having a hard time believing it is natural that the 15 year old Adcom smokes the Cary. I am a fairly competent electrical engineer and I believe the tube setup (bias) is correct. I would appreciate any help. Thanks, Larry K.
lkitchell
boa2's avatar
boa2
1,551 posts
 
The La Scala's (we own them as well) sound completely different depending upon placement. Even when swapping between the two different tube amps that we have, I have to adjust the speakers to optimize the sound. Still, we use an active sub, as 53Hz is not so low. Try moving the speakers around a bit, experiment with the spacing & toe-in. We have not toed ours in at all, for example.

I also think that NOS tubes add a richness and depth that most modern production tubes (especially preamp tubes) cannot match. Tinny and thin is exactly the way I would describe many of the current tubes.

Sounds like the speaker cable switch will make a big improvement as well, as Rob mentioned above.

Best of luck,
Howard
creeper
251 posts
 
I was thinking the same thing as Rob and Howard. You might have a polarity issue. Easy solution to try out.
ozzy62's avatar
ozzy62
3,132 posts
 

illenema1@wmconnect.com says

>A tube preamp will not have the lowend of a tube preamp.<

Anybody care to take a shot at this one???

Oz
s23chang
619 posts
 
From my experience, I've owned and audition over a dozen tube preamps and about 10 SS preamps. Not all tube preamps are created equal. You'll find that most the tube preamp had lower frequency roll off ( mid to low price range.) Some high end tube preamps goes deeper than SS preamp. i.e. The Audio Research SP 11 MK II, LS-5, SP-8 MK II ( not as deep as the rest on this list) and the vintage HK Citation I. Aside from the frequency extension, the tube preamps all sound much livelier compared to SS preamp. It adds more emotion to listening experience plus the tube preamp sounds more transparent than the SS preamp.
czbbcl's avatar
czbbcl
1,752 posts
 
Lkitchel

What a bummer. There is no way that adcom should outperform cary; just should not happen. I have had experience with tube pre-amps and tube amps (conrad johnson) and they sounded wonderful through my thiels. Yes it is true tube amps don't have the bass control of ss but they will produce bass and in a lot of cases very satisfying bass. I have no clue as to why you are experiencing what you are other than to let you know it is not normal.Speaker placement isn't the problem and I highly doubt phase is the issue either. Tube rolling is not the solution as someone mentioned more of a tweak than anything else. Have you checked and rechecked your connections. Tube electronics into Klipsch should be a match made in heaven with ss being the lesser. Just my experience and good luck.

Chuck
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