2. amps-preamps
  3. 1119474579

Why does my new tube amp and preamp sound so bad?

Hi: I am brand new to audiogon but I would appreciate any ideas you folks may have. I am a seasoned audiophile with only SS experience. I have wanted to try the "tube" sound for awhile but have just now been able to afford it so I put together a new tube based system along side of my SS. I purchased a used set of Klipsch La Scalas and restored them and powered them via my Adcom amp and preamp. The speakers sounded excellent, great bass! All right, next step after much internet research, but without hearing, I purchased a new Cary Rocket 88R amp and a AES (Cary)AE-3 DJH preamp. There are no Cary dealers within 200 miles of where I live (I know dumb mistake!)Hooked the system up and it sounds terrible. Well I thought the tubes just needed breaking in. After 100 hours no better. The sound lacks any bass and it is very "tinney". It sounds as if a low frequency roll-off filter is present. I contacted Cary and they said substitute the AE-3 for my Adcom preamp. I did and there was an immediate improvement. Cary had me ship the preamp back and they checked it out and could not find anything wrong. I put it back into the system with the same results. Does anybody have any ideas? Could tube rolling be the answer? I have tried different interconnects which made no difference. With all things being the same the Cary preamp sounds terrrible when compared to the SS Adcom. I am having a hard time believing it is natural that the 15 year old Adcom smokes the Cary. I am a fairly competent electrical engineer and I believe the tube setup (bias) is correct. I would appreciate any help. Thanks, Larry K.
lkitchell
czbbcl's avatar
czbbcl
1,752 posts
 
Pbb

If you are implying that electronics do not burn-in you would be sorely mistaken.

Chuck
pbb
1,140 posts
 
Yeah, sure they really do burn-in and then go straight on through to burnout. What I am saying to the original poster is that if the components are functioning properly electrically speaking, maybe that is the way they do sound like and maybe they simply are not his cup of tea. What I am also saying is that, once he has assessed that they are functioning properly, he try to live with them a while and give himself and the components a chance.
czbbcl's avatar
czbbcl
1,752 posts
 
Pbb

Understood about straight to burn-out and agree although I hope that is a ways down the road ; good assesment.

Chuck
tubegroover
2,320 posts
 
So far as bass goes, I never felt Cary was the last word in bass extension to say the least. They have a very rolled off presentation at the frequency extremes with an emphasis on the midrange with is quite full and present. Now the issue about the sound being tinny is a real dilemma. The Cary should eliminate any tendency in that direction, it is the anthesis of tinny sounding so it seems to be an electrical problem/issue, polarity as suggested above or possibly a mismatch with the impedance/capacitance of the cables in conjunction with the output impedance of the pre-amp, just a thought but a real possibility. You may want to check with the manufacturer of both to find out.

So far as tube swapping, this should not be an issue with tinny sound but tubes can have an impact on perceived bass, quietness, dynamics and frequency extension which is dependent on the electrical characteristics of the tubes. Bass control is pretty much the domain of ss and some OTL amps in my experience. Tube amps with transformers generally do not offer this control and I have not heard any Cary amp that does this well. You are used to the ss amp which is almost certainly better in this area of performance. NOS tubes generally have higher voltages with greater quality control than the ones currently being manufactured. There is a reason people are willing to spend big bucks on tubes beyond the plecebo effect that the uninitiated, inexperienced and non-believers might have you believe. Dwindling supply drives the prices up but the demand is still there, for good reason.

Cable matching with a system is a tweak to be sure but you would be amazed at how properly matched cables can affect the overall performance and enjoyment of an otherwise good system. I have heard cables that have had a greater positive impact than some components so don't discount this because some disagree, listen for yourself before taking anyone's word. Good luck and please report back to us as to the problem.
clio09
3,355 posts
 
Tubegroover,

IMO, the bass on my Cary V12i with stock tubes is not quite as you described about the Cary house sound in general. Perhaps this is just my experience, but being very focused on the bass in recordings I listen to, I have been happy with the V12i which is fed by sources run through an SLP-98. I use Spendor 1/2e speakers, also known for their mid-range so maybe I'm the exception and not the rule. I will say that once I upgraded the Chinese EL-34s to Siemens and the Chinese 6SN7s with Sylvanias the bass really opened up. However, before then I was still satisfied with it.
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