2. amps-preamps
  3. 1123254379

VAC Ren II, VAC Phi, or ARC Ref 3?

Finally, the two cold solder joints in one of my Rowland 7M amplifiers have been fixed. Just a simple 2 minutes soldering job at home, thanks to a kind live phone consult by Jeff himself. Now the system is back purring like a kitten.
Great say you, but. . . the problem is that now I have fallen totally prey to Upgraditis Furiosa, the most pernicious and 'wife threatening' form of Audiophilia Nervosa.
I listen mostly to classical--lots of chamber, vocal, Early Music, Baroque, Romantic, some large orchestra, lots of cello and other strings--on a system that I have lovingly put together over the last 20 years: EAD T1000, AT&T glass C-core glass wire, EAD D7000 Mk. 3, AudioQuest Quartz RCA, Audio Research LS2B, Gutwire XLR, Jeff Rowland 7M monoblocks, Cardas Golden Ref PCs on 7M, Cardas Golden Ref speakerwires, MagnePan 3A speakers.
The sound is sweet, lush, with a large if slightly unfocused soundstage, sometimes slightly veiled, somewhat soft at the bottom, can sound glorious in the midrange, good if not spectacular at the top. Much better at small ensembles than at full orchestra, where the sound stage can collapse and full strings and brass often display signs of brittleness and two-dimensionality. But, so much for self-criticism. Now what to do?
I intend to migrate towards a fully balanced system, with redbook and SACD capability and a tube linestage. I will start upgrading at the source and linestage points. The source will be an Esoteric X-01 or an upcoming APL NWO-1. But in this thread I'd like to discuss options for a new linestage. My requirements are an open and detailed, sweet sound, accurate with minimal coloration, with very good but not necessarily overwhelming macro-dynamics, an excellent three-dimensional and accurate soundstage, superior microdynamics and subtle nuance. The linestage must sound great out of the box--after breakin of course: not only after going through many cycles of NOS tubes musical chairs. All of this from a company with a stellar track record and reputation in quality, dependability and pre/post sale support. I listened to the VTL 7.5 and found it to be too soft. The BAT VK51SE sounded too dark. Then I listened at length to the VAC Ren II, which seems to embody all of my requirements. I have not heard the VAC Phi as yet, but it is in the running by inference. Nor I have listened to the ARC Ref 3, although I intend to: Ref 3 is in the running by reputation.
Suggestions? Opinions? It's your turn guys and girls!
guidocorona
guidocorona OP
4,298 posts
 
The Feb 2006 issue of TAS features a review of the ARC Ref 3 linestage and ARC Ref 210 mono blocks. The devices are compared to the much more expensive $19,000 MBL 6010 D pre- amp and $73,500 9011 monoblock amps. According to the reviewer, the MBL gear excels in detail, decay on 'sostenuto' and ultimate transient response. while the ARC products excell in size/solidity of stage, ambient realism and decay, tonal color and accuracy, tonal balance, neutral background. Remarkably good (massive authority) in bass control and transient response for tube gear.
"The MBL gear reproduces the transient slap of the duo's voices as it bounces back toward the listener off the rear wall more distinctly than the ARC does—more distinctly than anything else I've tried. But the ARC combo reproduces the way their voices trail away toward the rear wall with the same magical continuousness that it shows when reproducing the decays of notes. Both presentations are kind of amazing. And which products you will prefer will depend, to some extent, on whether you value astonishing clarity and transients or astonishing durations and tone colors.
effect is awe-inspiring. . ."

I have not heard the MBL gear so I can't comment directly on it, but I concur with Jonathan Valin assessment on the Arc Ref 3 behavior in tonal color, stage, imaging and decay. As for bass authority and transient speed, for my particular taste, the Ref 3 is just correct, and any more of these would be excessive and unwelcome.
Finally, Jonathan Valin is somewhat guilty of comparing apples and oranges: he should have used the ARC Ref 610 current flagships to compare against his MBL benchmark, not the 210.
jafox
1,456 posts
 
I applaud Jonathan Valin for taking a systems approach to listening and comparing with other "systems" but the end result is just that: one system vs. the other. Unfortunately, this makes it tough if not impossible to quantify how one line stage sounds vs. the other (and the same for the amps) as each model of the respective line may "compliment" its sibbling .... or are they each "neutral". Of course mixing and matching could result in the worst of both worlds. But a lot of people like the tube preamp and ss amp and it would have been nice to read about this pairing.

For someone who already has a great match of their amplifier to their speakers, and is seeking information as to the specifics of line stages for auditioning, this review brings on little value. Hopefully Mr. Valin, one of my favorite audio reviewers by the way, will further analyze and report on these products in a standalone manner as well.

As for the issue of comparing apples and oranges, even if the ARC 610 amps were used in comparison, the price difference would still be huge. And with the design and implementations so massively different here, it still comes down to the strengths of ss (ultimate resolution/detail and frequency extreme coverage) and tubes (spatial/ambience) which are very clear from Mr. Valin's conclusions. In the big picture, no surprises here about which product line excells in each of the key sonic attributes. So this too comes down to apples/oranges.

John
guidocorona OP
4,298 posts
 
Good points JAFOx. I do also favor reviews where the number of variables are minimized. Yet, a comparison of the MBL with the ARC Ref 610 may have been a more valid one than the current with the Ref 210. They both represent a statement of the current maximum capabilities and technical prowers of these two companies. I am not terribly concerned about the almost 2X price difference. The assigned list price of the MBL gear is at least partially indicative of Euro vs US greenback exchange realities and may be highly influenced by deliberate marketing decisions to facilitating certain product perceptions, rather than purely being driven by the reality of R&D and production costs.
guidocorona OP
4,298 posts
 
My Ref 3 was supposed to have shipped last week. . . but ARC has run out of its stock of black faceplates and is expecting delivery of a new batch. . . so I am still anxiously awaiting for my unit to get a face inplant, and . . . salivating in anticipation!
keithr
1,306 posts
 
Umm, MBL gear has always been stratospheric. Hardly $/Euro issues....which by the way have subsided greatly in the past 1.5 years.

ARC and CJ both have upgraditis on the high end. Both have reissued "top of the line" preamps 3x in the past 5 years. Wish both would work on their mid-priced preamps more. Also curiously enough, neither have been upgradable at all in the past 5 years which is a shame.
More to discover