2. music
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music , mind , thought and emotion

There is not a society on this planet, nor probably ever has been, which is without some form of musical expression, often closely linked with rythm and dance. My question is less concentrated on the latter two however.
What I am pondering boils down to:
What is music and what does it do to us
Why do we differentiate music from random noise so clearly and yet can pick up certain samples within that noise as musical.
By listening to music, we find some perhaps interesting, some which we would call musical. What differentiates "musical music" from "ordinary music" and this again from "noise"?
In a more general sense again:
If music has impact on us, what is the nature of our receptors for it. Or better: Who, what are we, that music can do to us what it does?
What would be the nature of a system, which practically all of us would agree upon, that it imparts musicality best?
And finally, if such a sytem would exist, can this quality be measured?
detlof
t_bone
1,182 posts
 
Detlof, interestingly enough, according to a piece recently out (see it here), Glenn Gould was interviewed very late in his life (according to the interviewer, conducted in his usual summer wear, "two sweaters, a woolen shirt, scarf, gloves, a long black coat, and a slouch hat" - reminds me of how you mentioned you saw him once in Austria) and he had something similar to say:

"I believe that the justification of art is the internal combustion it ignites in the hearts of men and not its shallow, externalized, public manifestations. The purpose of art is not the release of a momentary ejection of adrenaline but rather the gradual, lifelong construction of a state of wonder and serenity."

As well as being in line with your most recent comment above, I think it works remarkably well as an answer to the second part of your original question of "What is music and what does it do to us?" And if one accepts it as it is, it may become less important to answer the first part of the question.
Travis
gregm
3,407 posts
 
Interesting, Travis. This may go some way answering the last sentence in the original thread ("...can....(it).. be measured"). In the light of the above, it can only be identified by emotional experience and, perhaps, the measurement becomes unecessary.
ozfly
887 posts
 
Gregm, mesurement is not just unnecessary, it is unwanted, intrusive and destructive. Measurement, in any objective sense, is the antithesis of art. We don't yet know enough to allow art and science to comfortably merge and co-exist. That struggle is near and dear to us as audiophiles, where we constantly balance the known science (e.g., ohm's law) with the unknown art (e.g., pc's affecting the sound). We live in the grey zone and are yet too ignorant to see through the fog. Until then, I want nothing objective to get between me and the music; let it touch my soul directly.
onhwy61's avatar
onhwy61
5,242 posts
 
The ear is nothing more than a bio-mechanical measurement device which feeds data into the brain. Ozfly, if you really believe that measurements are destructive, and I'm not sure I disagree with that statement, then you would have to abandon your hearing apparatus and take the music to the level of thought only. The fluctuations in air pressure only become music after the ear gathers the data and the brain organizes it into patterns. I honestly don't know where your soul enters the equation, but there's never anything between you and the music, it's always in your mind. It's the only place where it can exist.
ozfly
887 posts
 
Interesting observation Onhwy61. Is perception and measurement the same? Perhaps so, in some ways. I was referring to the objective sense of scientific measurement. Certainly, air pressure can be measured by either the ear or an instrument, but that does not measure the music itself. In other words, art itself cannot be measured objectively though certain perceptions of art can be. Thanks for the clarification.

We'll likely need to leave the discussion of soul for another time and place. My personal belief is that the soul extends beyond the mind. The general proposition about the inability to measure art does not rely on that, or I belive any, specific interpretation of soul.
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