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Drums reproduction

Considering audio's desire to reproduce live performance as accurately as possible, why do you think the drums are recorded so far back in the mix? I've attended many jazz and fusion performances and many drummers are at the sonic forefront of their bands. Tony Williams, Billy Cobham, et all sonicly fill the room like nobody's business. Even less powerful drummers are on equal footing with their bandmates. Why does it not sound so on recordings? The drums are politely included for percussive colorations but in no way dominate like live. Example: Elvin Jones live powerfully fills every bit of the room to the point that it can border on exhaustion. But on recordings he can sound like a pipsqueak in comparison, just another polite member of the band. Please don't confuse the performance of the musician. It seems like it is the producers choice. Why?
richardmr
onhwy61's avatar
onhwy61
5,216 posts
 
You're absolutely correct when you say it's the producers' choice. In general, that is for most types of music, it more appropriate for the drum sound to be limited in its size and impact so as not to overwhelm the rest of the band. If it's an entirely acoustic band then the drums are by far the most dynamic instrument and in live situations good drummers know how to modulate their playing to fit the venue and balance out the groups overall sound. It's interesting that the three drummers you mention are all band leaders and are known for their powerful sound. I suspect when playing live, as the bandleader and headliner, they simply tell the sound man to "turn up the drums!"
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drubin
3,274 posts
 
But in smaller clubs, they may not be amplified at all yet they still fill the room. I think our systems are also be at fault.

Good thread, Richardmr.
piezo
304 posts
 
depends on the sound guy for the live shows just like the producer. New school mixers go for the big thump and overbaring bass while the old school guys leave the bass and drums as a solid bottom but not in the way of the soloists. The latter is by far my preference.
sidssp
1,077 posts
 
I think it has more to do with marketing and sales.

In order to reproduce drums close to live level, you need top notch equipment and a well-treated good size room. I don’t know how many of us have the amp and speakers that can reproduce that kind of dynamic. I know mine cannot. Also, most of the listening rooms have standing wave problem. If drums were recorded at live level, the bass from these recordings will overwhelm the room, triggering all kinds of resonance; causing heavy, unarticulated, one-node bass, and robbing most of the details of other instruments. I don’t think too many people will buy recordings sound like that.

So in order to make recordings sound good in average system, they got to tone down the drums.
richardmr OP
90 posts
 
So, do you mean producers purposely turn down the drums with the expectation that people's systems can't handle it? What about the symbols, intricate high-hat work, or the poor drummer that's doing a quieter piece? I believe he loses impact because of the poor volume level. Guitar work can be extrordinarily amplified. Sidssp - If what you say is true about bass overwhelming the room, how come it doesn't always happen live, like in an acoustic arrangement as Drubin says? The wierd thing as well is that this seems to be an across the board problem, regardless of music style. It's the pervasiveness of this that seems strange. You would think SOMEBODY would push the envelope a little bit.

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