Law of Diminishing Returns; where does it kick in?

When I'm broke, 2K for a system seems too much. When I've got a ton of cash, 150K seems only reasonable. I've been down the road on two middle level systems and I am struggling with my willingness to part with the better portion of a house in the country. So, here's my equation. For the new house in Pescara, send my ML335 & Dunlavy's over and just listen. I really like the way they sound.

For here at home, I'm thinking that if the Rockport hyperions are as outrageously good as they are touted and the Whamms aren't better, then I can live with 100K for speakers. Amps? 20K, Digital source? 6-10K. Wires??? 5K? 8K? Live without the pre... I only listen to cd's. It seems simple. I guess it's the 100K question. Right?

Bill E.

In addition to personal preference, I believe that it depends on what music you are trying to reproduce. We hear live classical music once or twice a week. We have Opera, Symphony and chamber music series tickets in the center section all around row 12. The major thing that got me into high end audio was trying to reproduce an acceptable substitute for the live experience. We have friends that listen with us to our system and also sit with us at the live concerts. They know nothing about equipment. Over the last two years we have inflicted many “test” pieces of high end equipment on our friends. Based on the “acceptable substitute” for live Mahler, Wagner Stravinsky, and Bruckner, diminishing returns and the onset of personal preference sets in around the estimates of Tireguy and Classic Jazz

Personally :
$1k for amp (integrated perhaps best at this cost point)
$2k for speakers
$500 for CD
$1k for turntable (inc phono pre)
$200 for collection of homebrew cables
$5k for source material CD/vinyl (not mentioned in previous posts)
Maybe I'm a cheapskate ? Maybe tone deaf. Or perhaps I just prefer spending time with the family listening to my system vs hours at work required to to (legally) earn the money for a $100k system.

Perceived Return(PR) on $$$ spent for audio rises steadily at a 45 degree angel until it hits your Ear Level(EL), then divide by the square root of your Annual Income (AI).

PR=EL/AI

Very early in commercial gear, as it must due to the distribution chain and all that advertising to pay for.

No, I'm not saying that it's all a rip-off, I have been involved in manufacturing electrical appliances at the R&D level, so I understand the cost structure involved.

That is why I build my own or modify second hand gear. I would sooner pay 100% too much for a good quality resistor or capacator (which is reasonable considering the sort of inventory a parts supplier needs to carry - at US$2.50-5.00 for a good resistor to buy in, that's a lot of money folks) than a 1,000% too much for the same component in a commercial product!

Sure, it takes time and it takes even more time to learn what is good and what is not. But for me, that makes it even more fun!

Anyway, good sound has been around for a long time now. Some of the clasic designs, mostly tube admittedly, sound really good with modern components.

The use of high speed soft recovery diodes in power supplies alone (that are available these days), can really improve the sound of some older gear. Also the better capacators such as Silmic, Black Gate, Muse and Cerafine all work wonders.

So, my advice is find some good, but not extravagant second hand gear and learn how to "modernise" it with high quality components.
Just make VERY SURE you learn about the safety aspects of working with electricity. Like a gun or a car, it is not dangerous in and of itself - but ignorance can be (and often is) FATAL.
Electrocution is not fun, I found out the hard way due to a faulty domestic fan. I have never had a shock from audio gear as I am VERY carefull not to. Once was too much.

Just find a like minded soul and learn. Plenty is on the web also.
A search for kits will also turn up a lot. It is the metalwork that is the hardest bit really - all done for you in a kit!

I believe that is the best way to get bang for the buck and to push the limits more before the diminishing returns really kick in.
I am just in the process of purchasing some Audio Alchemy gear (DTI 32 pro, DDE3, MPS and transport) through Audiogon.....
The adventure continues!