Where do you draw the line???

Onhy61, That your Harbeth system won't do deep bass, won't go extremely loud and the soundstage/imaging is not SOTA, is precisely why some better healed folks will pay more than the price of your system to get exactly what you say it won't do. They will not consider the sound from your suggested system and what they want to be remotely similar. How much does it cost to design, manufacture, and retail such a system - we all know it cost a lot of money to effect small improvements in very high quality equipment. The value of such a system is only relevant to those who want the differences and are willing to pay for them. Just because some of have lesser requirements doesn't negate the value such equipment has for these people. For those folks who don't have the room for the equipment to shine, don't have the ears to hear the difference, don't have the money to spend, let them enjoy what they have. Why do folks want to comment on what others see fit to do with their money. Frankly its none of their business and in my view its done only to compensate for their own poor view of themselves. If you can enjoy music thru a boom box, Bose, or you need Wilsons (whatever) it only matters if you enjoy the music, not if I would enjoy the music.

Nrchy

I somewhat agree with Onhwy61, and somewhat agree with you.

Not everybody feels the need for a megabuck system. On the thread "how much does your system retail for" i beleieve there is a 1.8 million entry. (holy crap)

Regardless, If somebody does alot of research they can probably build a system that does what THEY want for 15,000. Of course, some people want a system that does more and will be willing to pay alot more. To the person who is 100% satisfied with thier 15,000 system, the megabuck system might not sound to thier liking, meaning that in thier perspective, thier 15,000 system sounds better than someone elses 150,000 system. And Vica Verca.

When you get to this kind of equipment, stating that a 30,000 system is better than a 15,000 system becomes a matter of opinion, not fact. Your opinion is your fact and his opinion is his fact, but neither are right and neither are wrong. What sounds good to somebody doesent mean it will sound better to somone else even if it cost 10 times as much.

Also, take into account where that extra money went

---EXAMPLE---

System A) 15,000 2 chan setup
2 full range speakers, 2 chan amp, preamp, turntable, cables

System B) 35,000 HT w/ integrated 2 chan
7 Speakers, 5 chan amp, 2 chan amp, prepro, dvd, cd, vcr, sacd, cables, AC conditioner, 2 subwoofers.

Well, obviously system B cost alot more, there are 5 extra speakers to amplify/cable along with DVD and CD and such.

So which sounds better?

Whichever one somebody prefers. It becomes a matter of personal taste.

Even if system B had the same stuff but more expencive, the idea of it automatically sounding better is rediculous. its still a matter of personal taste

Right now i only have an 8,000 system. But i doubt it will ever break the 20,000 mark unless i come across an obscene amount of cash. (win lucky numbers!!!)

Besides, i told the "better half" that it will not be more expencive than her car. Time to go trade her saturn in for an Audi.

Newbee, I agree with everything you said except your second sentence - "They will not consider the sound from your suggested system and what they want to be remotely similar." I guess the problem I'm having is in the emphasis. You say the systems won't sound remotely similar. Nrchy says there are huge differences between systems. The way I hear things there are huge differences between a table radio and any well put together $7,500 system. The differences between that same $7,500 system and an equally well put together $75,000 system are subtle. They ain't huge. In making this last statement I am not making any judgments about the validity or appropriateness of purchasing either system. Take a look at my system, it doesn't cost $7,500 and I don't have any regrets. I'm simply saying that great sounding systems don't have to cost the equivalent of one of those large German sedans. I like the way Audiophanatik put it, "stating that a 30,000 system is better than a 15,000 system becomes a matter of opinion, not fact". To each his own, but let's not pretend why we do certain things.

Onhwy61, They won't sound remotely similar because the prospective purchaser won't be listening for the same things that are important to you or me(so to speak). Now you or I might find them to sound the same because we listen to them quietly reproducing vocals, but if the purchaser listens to Mahler's 8th in full voice, believe me they wouldn't sound remotely similar. In a small room you wouldn't hear the difference either because you couldn't play them loud - I could go on ad infinitum, but you get the point. Fortunately, I don't have a large room or wallet so I'm not tempted by this SOTA stuff, your 15K system would probably sound just fine to me.

A fact is a provable point. The point can be proved by anyone with right equipment. Facts and opinions are not interchangable. If a $30,000 system cannot be proven to be better than a $15,000 system it is not better!

I had a $15,000 system. I now own a system that retails for a little over $30,000. I would not willingly go back to the former system, because there were too many compromises. I don't think I am much smarter now than when I bought the previous system. I have always had to live within my means. So the compromises I made then, and continue (in some respects) to make now are not due to a lack of understanding as to a lack of funds.

I know without a doubt that if I had the money I would make certain changes, all of which would be significant improvements. These improvements would/will come at a significant cost too! These changes have been planned and prioritised so I know what I will be doing as opposed to jumping at the next good deal. If I could not hear an improvement comensurate to the cost I would not spend the money.

The differeence between a $75,000 system and a $7,500 system is like the difference between the back row of a concert and the third row. It's still the same concert, with the same music and musicians, but the quality of the presentation is extremely different.