Top ten DD turntables of all time?

Mapman, if you click on my system, and look at the pics for the Denon DP-80, I can tell you that screwdriver in hand, it would take me 2mins flat to remove the TT from the plinth (assuming it has no record on it - call it another 10 seconds plus the time to put the record in the jacket if as is). The Sony TTS-8000 pic is nude (i.e. wearing no plinth) so you can see what the structure of one of these is. It comes with mounting screws which are similar to the Denon mounting screws (one removes the platter, and mounts the structure to the plinth). I have not yet plinthed that one but a simple method would be to follow the CLD-style plinth recipes as outlined in the 'Home Despot' thread (or elsewhere on the net), with a cutout designed for this particular pattern of body.

As for vibrations... there are vibrations all around us. Putting a 200lb TT onto a table, which is mounted on a concrete slab, is OK. Putting a passive system like a vibraplane or similar underneath is a whole new ballgame. I cannot tell you why most of us cannot feel the whole world shaking beneath our feet, but in a a lot of places it does...

T_bone,

Thanks for the info. I'll check it out further.

That Denon looks and sounds like a winner! What does it give up to your other good tables?

In my case the Linn Axis sits on a very heavy and sturdy solid oak table. That and my other main listening room with my biggest/best speaks (the OHM f-5s) are both located in the basement and sit on the concrete foundation above a thin but dense carpet and pad.

I do not think I have vibration issues that are audible, but cannot say for certain.

I can go as loud as Hades in the 12X12 equipment room and get no noticeable noise or feedback off the table. I know though that sonic vibrations can have more subtle effects on sound quality so that would be the area of less certainty for me.

I may do the test where I listen in the room with the table and in the other room where the F-5s are without it and see what I might hear.

I will still put this information regarding DD turntables and plinths in my hat for future reference at a minimum because my Linn Axis will surely not last forever, despite its going strong now since about 1987.

Thanks!

What does the Denon DP-80 give up to other tables? Not a huge amount after it has been re-plinthed, put on a magnetic flotation isolation platform, and set up with a good arm. It has better sound than the PL-7L, but it should. The PL-7L is "newer" but at its peak it cost the same as the Denon motor by itself. The Denon is currently in a slightly better than original (if not terribly pretty) plinth, with a decent SAEC arm (the 407/23 - which I rate pretty highly). I think the Pioneer PL-7L can be better than I have gotten it so far because it has a decent arm and arm bearing, and insulator feet which keep the thing smoother than it has a right to be at its price (all the cost in this table was spent on motor and arm, which are decent - the plinth is well-designed but cheaply made. The isolation footers are very "non-audiophile-approved" (big plastic things with a spring system inside), but they work very well. I have not put a high enough compliance cart on it to make it perform its best. I have one on order so hope to have it on next week to test it out.

The Denon DP-80 is better than the Yamaha PX-2, and perhaps also better than the Diatone LT-1, because while they are very nice tables as-is, they are integrated linear trackers and would therefore be difficult to replinth (not impossible for the LT-1, but not easy like the DP-80). The Yamaha PX-1 is very nice. With an isolation platform underneath, it is very, very good. It could be tweaked to be even better (e.g. better tonearm cable, and dampening the diecast plinth might yield improvement (though might not)). I have not yet decided which I like better.

Comparisons fall down against the P3 and the MS. The MS is a great belt-drive TT - huge inertia and stability, especially on an isolation platform. There is zero edginess anywhere. Sometimes I have had to check the motor to see if was running slow (never has) just because it sounds so smooth. Using the older "Japanese heyday" arms (the SAEC, the MS Max 237, the FR-64s), it benefits from tracking a given cart a bit higher/heavier than I do on other tables (by a couple tenths). The Denon 'sounds like' the P3, but so far the P3 is better (in almost all respects). Part of this is that the P3 is naturally set up quite well. The arm, motor, and isolation-damping plinth were all designed to work together, and were all designed to a very high standard - flagships are called that for a reason and so have to be able to defend the colors against all comers. The P3 is smoother, but has unbelievable torque. It is tough to beat that. My next challenge is to see if the P3 will go on the magnetic flotation platform and see whether that makes it even better (the P3 is so heavy I am not sure the isolation platform can handle it).

In any case, all this talk of multiple TTs is showing me that I need to get rid of some!

I can also vouch for the sound quality of the Yamaha PX-2.
My current turntable is the Yamaha GT 2000.
This is quite simply a superb turntable.As T bone said,I can also vouch for the effectiveness of the Mag-Lev solution.I have my GT 2000 sitting upon 8 Clearaudio Magix.In order for the Magix to be optimally effective,the individual pylons need to be compressed by the same amount.This directly relates to the resonant frequency at which the isolation begins to take effect.If the pylons are compressed by grossly different amounts,they are all isolating at different frequencies which wastes the application of the pylons.
Careful optimisation of this parameter of their performance elevates the GT 2000 to a stunningly good turntable.

Hello all,
just found this thread looking for something else, and just have to throw my 2 cents in.

Back in 2000, I purchased an Aries MK1,JMW10,SDS Motor Controller, and a Grado Statement cartridge, and lived with and loved this set-up until two years ago, when one of my friends gave me his Mitchell Cotter. Its based upon the Denon DP600, and carries a Fidelity Research FR66s w silver internal wiring. He also threw in two cartridges, a Mission 773( high output version ), and a Koetsu Rosewood made by the old man. I didn't have time until about six months ago, but I have now played with every combination of cartridge on both tables to do a comparison. I of course began with the preconceived notion that the Cotter didn't stand a chance because it was direct drive and it was going up against a very good belt drive table in the Aries combo.

I couldn't have been more wrong.

The Cotter bests the Aries in every aspect of performance to my ears with all three cartridges. Now the Grado and Mission are not up to their best in the FR66s arm because of the compliance/arm mass interaction ( those cartridges are theoretically a better match for the JMW10 ), however they all strut their stuff better in the Cotter. The most striking difference to my ears is the complete lack of any background noise with the Cotter. I never knew there was any there with the Aries until I got the Cotter set up properly.
That table base is just completely acoustically inert.

The top end DD tables that have already been mentioned are all top class contenders, but all DD tables ( and I've been doing a lot of study lately) are better served with a new plinth. There's a lot of info on the Web, and if you're the least bit handy you can make an already great rig significantly better.

Well, that's enough for now.

Cheers, and enjoy the music.

Bill