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Room Treatments, When are they required?

Hey Audiogoners!!!

I threw my first BBq in my new home this weekend. One of my guests who is also into audio gear came and we ended up talking a bit about audio gear.

My livingroom where the audiogear will be has 15ft vaulted ceilings, hardwood floors, and opens up to the dining room and kitchen. All pretty much in one real big l-shaped room.

I was telling him about my future upgrqade plans, which are nothing too extraordary, im thinking of some Parasound Amps and some Vandersteen 2CEs or 3As. It iwll be run 100% seperate from my HT system, but in the same room.

Anyways, he told me that it was a waste of money and there is no point in upgrading what i have unless i have a Dedicated listening room.

Personally, i think the accoustics in my livingroom are fantastic. Yes, some echo busters along the back wall or something might help out, but sound there is rich and full of live. Snap your fingers you get a nice clean SNAP, it doesent echo or linger any longer than it should. I have 3 very plush couches that do wonders for echo absorption.

When did everyone else start getting into room treatments and dedicated listening rooms?

Personally, i disagree with him, vandersteen 2ce's powered by some Parasound Amps will sound better than some radioshack speakers powered by a Denon 3505. No doubt about it in my mind. I dont care if it is installed in a dedicated room or a subway tunnel. it will sound better and i plan to upgrade.

When do YOU feel it is time to work on the room instead of the system?
Is there a certain price tag on the system that you feel is useless to upgrade further without having a dedicate room or room treatments?

Just curious.

Oh yeah, HAPPY 4TH OF JULY!
Woulda got that out earlier if i had been sober in the past few days.
slappy
nrchy's avatar
nrchy
2,124 posts
 
I used a TACT analizer a couple of weeks ago and found that my room wasn't as good as I thought it was. Just because you like the sound of your system doesn't mean it is accurate, or flat (if flat is even a priority).

I agree that the room is just another componant. The nice thing is it usually costs a lot less to fix the room than it does to buy new gear. If the room was good with the old gear it should be even better with the new stuff.

My opinion FWIW about HiFi shows is that they are useless for auditioning gear because 11 times out of 10 the rooms suck, or at least don't resemble your room at all. How often have you heard people say "I heard 'company A' (which is obscenely expensive) at CES and their gear sounded like excrement." What company that builds good gear is going to spend lots of money to advertise gear that is not up to snuff? It's not the gear, more often than not (again 11 times out of 10) it is because the room does not lend itself to being used for the purpose expected of it.

Room treatments are invaluable. I think it is impossible to get good sound out of a room that is not treated! Ask Albert or Slipknot what they thought of the before and after listening. Alberts room is beautiful and done so well that the treatments are nearly invisible. The stuff does not have to be intrusive to work.

Alright, I'm going to take a breathe after this long-winded rant!
ozfly
887 posts
 
Slappy, much depends on your lifestyle. For me, I want to hear my system in several parts of the house, particularly the kitchen, informal eating area and small office (where I am now). So, a dedicated room made no sense for me -- I want to live with the music, not live for the music.

I designed my non-dedicated listening room to be acoustically good. But I've lived in other homes where average listening rooms sounded very, very good. Plush furniture and curtains combined with solid floors and walls can provide great acoustics. You can always add a few defractors and absorbers or Rives' fine technology.

Someone once asked me whether Sara McLaughlin would sound awful in a hotel room? (OK, keep the wise cracks down) Would the acoustics be so bad that you'd walk out holding your ears? I don't think so. A good system shows up well in any decent environment -- the brain can and does adjust. That's not to say that environments make no difference -- they do. That's not to say someone can't design a room that makes anything sound bad -- those rooms are out there. But many living areas are OK. Not optimal, but pretty good to very good.

What's your lifestyle? You indicate that the room sounds good now so would it make sense to remove the music to a dedicated room where you can make it sound even better? That's up to you.
slappy OP
903 posts
 
Oz,

Welp, im kinda stuck with the livingroom. None of the rooms in the house are really a good size for it except for the livingroom.

Also, i agree with you 100%, I too like to be able to hear it wherever i go. I like the idea of a dedicated listening room to reach that level of sound production, but at the same time, im a pretty active person, and i like to listen to music while cooking, cleaning, working on projects, hanging out on the deck, doing home improvements, etc.

More than anything, i was just kinda suprised by his statement.

I certainly agree a good system will sound like a good system no matter where it is, it might not be optimal, but it will still sound good.
nrchy's avatar
nrchy
2,124 posts
 
I don't think a good system will sound like a good system anywhere. A good system will not overcome a bad room anymore than good speakers will overcome lamp cord for speaker wire, or MP3 as a source.

I have heard good electronics in a room for which they were not suited, and they did not sound good. I would not have traded my own gear for this (supposedly) better gear.

No system will sound better than its weakest link, too often that is the room.

Just because a room is designed to be heard in a specific place within hte room (sweet spot) doesn't mean it will not sound good throughout the house. My listening room is in the basement, but I often have music playing to be enjoyed in other rooms, or for background while guests are visiting. The two are not mutually exclusive.
tedkurtz's avatar
tedkurtz
18 posts
 
First of all, you probably need some new friends. This guy was a bit rude and quite the absolutist. He may have a bit of a point about a dedicated room but he has no idea of who you are with his rigid autocratic comments. It doesn't sound like you want to spend all your listening time doing "dedicated critical listening". You just want to hear good tunes while you are living your life in your house.
The other question is "how much to tweak"? In this hobby, tweaking can be as much or as little as you like. You need to find your comfort zone with how much is enough. And that isn't easy. I find that it changes over time. Sometimes I go on a tweaking frenzy. Other times I say I am a happy camper and leave well enough alone.
I find that I use the criteria of "engagement". If the system allows me to be "engaged" in the music, then I figure it's good and good enough. So I try to notice how I feel rather than focus on what I hear.
That said, I think it fortunate that you got a comment from "Rives". Rives is a premier room treatment company and if you were of a mind to work on the "room", I think they would be a good company to consult. I think they have different levels (and cost) of services. So if, and only if, you were of a mind to obsess in this particular direction, that might be a good place to start.
I love to obsess and I think obsessing is great self torment and fun. The question is what you want to obsess over. Choose wisely or better still, obsess over what to obsess over. Enjoy your system. And your new house.
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