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Room Treatments, When are they required?

Hey Audiogoners!!!

I threw my first BBq in my new home this weekend. One of my guests who is also into audio gear came and we ended up talking a bit about audio gear.

My livingroom where the audiogear will be has 15ft vaulted ceilings, hardwood floors, and opens up to the dining room and kitchen. All pretty much in one real big l-shaped room.

I was telling him about my future upgrqade plans, which are nothing too extraordary, im thinking of some Parasound Amps and some Vandersteen 2CEs or 3As. It iwll be run 100% seperate from my HT system, but in the same room.

Anyways, he told me that it was a waste of money and there is no point in upgrading what i have unless i have a Dedicated listening room.

Personally, i think the accoustics in my livingroom are fantastic. Yes, some echo busters along the back wall or something might help out, but sound there is rich and full of live. Snap your fingers you get a nice clean SNAP, it doesent echo or linger any longer than it should. I have 3 very plush couches that do wonders for echo absorption.

When did everyone else start getting into room treatments and dedicated listening rooms?

Personally, i disagree with him, vandersteen 2ce's powered by some Parasound Amps will sound better than some radioshack speakers powered by a Denon 3505. No doubt about it in my mind. I dont care if it is installed in a dedicated room or a subway tunnel. it will sound better and i plan to upgrade.

When do YOU feel it is time to work on the room instead of the system?
Is there a certain price tag on the system that you feel is useless to upgrade further without having a dedicate room or room treatments?

Just curious.

Oh yeah, HAPPY 4TH OF JULY!
Woulda got that out earlier if i had been sober in the past few days.
slappy
nrchy's avatar
nrchy
2,124 posts
 
I don't think a good system will sound like a good system anywhere. A good system will not overcome a bad room anymore than good speakers will overcome lamp cord for speaker wire, or MP3 as a source.

I have heard good electronics in a room for which they were not suited, and they did not sound good. I would not have traded my own gear for this (supposedly) better gear.

No system will sound better than its weakest link, too often that is the room.

Just because a room is designed to be heard in a specific place within hte room (sweet spot) doesn't mean it will not sound good throughout the house. My listening room is in the basement, but I often have music playing to be enjoyed in other rooms, or for background while guests are visiting. The two are not mutually exclusive.
tedkurtz's avatar
tedkurtz
18 posts
 
First of all, you probably need some new friends. This guy was a bit rude and quite the absolutist. He may have a bit of a point about a dedicated room but he has no idea of who you are with his rigid autocratic comments. It doesn't sound like you want to spend all your listening time doing "dedicated critical listening". You just want to hear good tunes while you are living your life in your house.
The other question is "how much to tweak"? In this hobby, tweaking can be as much or as little as you like. You need to find your comfort zone with how much is enough. And that isn't easy. I find that it changes over time. Sometimes I go on a tweaking frenzy. Other times I say I am a happy camper and leave well enough alone.
I find that I use the criteria of "engagement". If the system allows me to be "engaged" in the music, then I figure it's good and good enough. So I try to notice how I feel rather than focus on what I hear.
That said, I think it fortunate that you got a comment from "Rives". Rives is a premier room treatment company and if you were of a mind to work on the "room", I think they would be a good company to consult. I think they have different levels (and cost) of services. So if, and only if, you were of a mind to obsess in this particular direction, that might be a good place to start.
I love to obsess and I think obsessing is great self torment and fun. The question is what you want to obsess over. Choose wisely or better still, obsess over what to obsess over. Enjoy your system. And your new house.
robm321
932 posts
 
Well, room treatment is necessary to get your equipment to sound the way they are designed to. You spent all of that money, you may as well get what you paid for. A dedicated listening room is up to you. I decided to go with it and am glad I did. I did away with home theater all together. I found that I didn't need to hear every detail of Hollywood soundtracks. But music that's another story.

Again your choice.

As far as room treatment don't waste too much money on it. Furniture or DIY absorbing/diffusing panels will do good enough if placed at first reflection points. Since you seem to have your echo problems under control then that's one less thing to worry about. If bass is tight. Don't worry about traps in the corners.

to sum up:

Do treat first reflection points (critical)
Treat Echo (critical) unless room eliminates naturally
Bass traps (critical) unless room eliminates naturally

other treatment is just tweaking

Don't overdampen a room either. It will sound as bad as an untreated room or worse.
slipknot1
1,423 posts
 
hey Slappy!
How's the new house treating you? I'll add my 2 cents to the discussion here as my setup is in my living room as well.

I did have Rives Audio do the treatment planning and measurements for my living room with the idea in mind of making it sound good but also keeping in mind that it IS my living room. Richard Bird did a tremendous job, and is great to work with. I followed his recommendations and the room sounds great, looks great and, although I did not intend it to, has evolved into a dedicated 2 channel listening space that works as a sitting room too. Most of the time the family is in the family room for TV, movies, etc anyway.

Rives Audio level one service was the best value upgrade I did for my listening pleasure. Regular AudiogoN member Rushton has been over to hear the results and posted some comments under my system here at the 'goN.

Whatever you decide to do, do what's right for you and don't let anyone tell you what to do or badmouth what you decide. Congrats on the new digs and keep up the great posts!
slappy OP
903 posts
 
Nrchy, define a "Good System"
If you take an audiophile system and put it in a normal room without tweaks, would you say it sounds BAD?

I fully believe a good system will sound like a good system anywhere.

an Excellent system may only sound like an excellent system under optimal conditions, but even an excellent system will sound good in less than optimal.
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