High end vs internet

I liked Tireguy's answer. This could be a touchy subject.

In my experience, more dealers know less about this whole field than 85% of the members here at Audiogon. I will, and have, paid full retail if the dealer can provide the level of service and support required with the given product. In my experience, which is short by comparison but I have had enough with stupid people, it seems that the dealers do not have the knowledge level to justify the increase in price.

If the service isn't their, why pay the price. Find the cheapest price on the net and either work through the issues yourself or ask here on Audiogon.

If I work with a local dealer, i.e. demos ect, I will buy from them. The basic trade offs are buying blind from the net which can burn, or an increase in price for the touch and feel factor. With audio it is very risky buying site un heard.

The dealer need to quit complaining and change his/her business model to accept the current reality of life.

That said I have found some dealers here that I would love to deal with.

Marty

I went to a HiFi shop about an hour from where I live to listen to a pair of $11,500 Talon Peregrine X speakers. After waiting for at least a half hour to be helped by the only person in the store who knew anything about the speakers I was brought upstairs to the "good equipment" room. The workers unboxed a brand new pair of Chorus mono blocks and plugged them in. The speakers were about 12 feet apart with a pair of martin Logan speakers in between them. I sat in the sweetspot on a sofa about 12 inches too short for the speakers and listened to the salesman tell me how he designed or helped design virtually every piece of equipment on the market today. We also told me how he goes to CES and sets up every turntable in all the rooms. Later he explained to me how my pre-amp was no good because it is not a tube pre-amp.
To his credit he offered to let me take the speakers home and listen to them. I didn't do it because by this point I knew I would not be buying from him.
I did get to listen for a few minutes and the speakers sounded good, but what could I really tell? Between the bad setup and the new mono blocks I certainly wasn't getting an accurtate portrayal of what these speakers could do.
He quoted me a price of $8000 on the speakers that have been sitting on his showroom floor for over a year.
With service like this why would I want to go on the net to buy equipment!?!
They have nice stuff in theis store but I don't plan to buy anything. I got enough gas from this salesman to drive back home!

Manufacturers like to give dealers "territory". Problem is...I have a computer, a car and absolutely no respect for price fixing schemes of this nature. Without considering mail order sales, ceteris parabis, price is first, service is second and all other considerations are third. If you give me a price we are BOTH happy with and minimal, but adequate service I MUST give you consideration. Geography is not in the top two. Manufacturers and dealers CAN NOT really give territory. St. Louis, Nashville, Cincy, Lexington, Memphis, Columbus, Chicago and Indianapolis are all within a few hours drive from me. My Louisville dealers MUST consider competing in all those markets. It is a GLOBAL market in home electronics partly because of the added knowledge the Internet can bring to our economic decisions...therefore you (dealers) gotta try to compete with everyone. If you are a dealer and you are not moving enough product or the margin is insufficient to justify the demo unit, good service and demo space...drop the line! Fewer dealers doing what needs to be done is better than too many dealers doing too little AND going broke too.

I think that the shift of interest from 2 channel stereo to HT has killed off the small stereo stores that specialized in high end stuff and were not quick enuf to see HT coming and convert. I only started looking at the internet after i couldn't find local dealers - i'd still prefer local dealers but driving 100 miles or more isn't "local" to me. When you're buying high end stuff a GOOD dealer will always beat the internet especially if they have on site competent service men.

The internet has done the following to hi-end audio:

1 - It has opened a used hi end market that was not possible/realized 10 years or so ago due to not having the internet to connect the masses across the world.

2 - It has hurt new sales at 'full retail prices' due to the fact that people can shop globally for new or nearly new pieces.

3 - It has created a network/forum for people to communicate and discuss hi end equipment. The this has helped small companies/manufacturers bring excellent products to market and prosper through good word of mouth over the net.

4 - It has created more avenues for hi end dealers to sell product. This touches upon your dealer's problem. Some dealers feel a bit shafted by the internet. Why do they feel shafted?
a. People will look at their store and even demo an item from them, and then they will buy that same item online.
b. They cannot beat many online prices due to the cost overhead they run. They have to mark up items 30% to 50% to make a profit. Many internet sellers can get by with a 10% to 20% markup.
c. People come into their stores and pick their brains. They give expert advice. And the people end up not buying anything.

I have worked part time as an audio salesmen before (at a large dealer). My best advice is the following:

1. Get creative and use the internet to your best advantage.
2. See more used gear and buy and sell it online.
3. Get into servicing elecronics. Get a good technician, pay him well, and charge $50-$75/hour for fixing electronics. The dealer I worked with was always backlogged with stuff to fix.
4, Get into HT and HT installation. Not everyone can install a great home theater system. If you are good at this, there is money to be made.
5. Settle for low margins on high dollar items. A dealer should be able to settle for a 10%-15% margin for $16k amps. I'm sorry, but look at the markup a car dealer has on a $16k car.... A car dealer loves %10. AND CARS DO NOT DEPRECIATE (SILLY LIKE) AS AUDIO GEAR DOES.
6. Be willing to sell your demo pieces to anyone who wants to buy them. And sell them at Demo prices (10-15% markup). Too many dealers I have met insist on keeping their demo pieces for close to a year before they sell them in a large sale. There may be some logic to this, but it is beyond me.
7. Do not carry a manufacturer who's Distributor does not support you. You as the dealer are the front line for the manufacturer. If you make a promise to a customer, the distributor should support you. If they do not, well drom him (or he should drop you).
8. Do not feel ashamed to carry Receivers. They are the bread and butter for many audio stores. And people have to start somewhere (I started 17 years ago with a Kenwood Receiver.... and look at the audio fiend I am now).
9. Train your salesmen. Audio salesmen I find fit into 1 of 2 categories. They are either good salesmen who do not know a lot about audio or they are audio geeks trying to be salesmen. One needs to be trained in audio, the other needs to be trained in sales. If I walk into n audio store, and the folks know less than I do about what they sell, I get disappointed and leave. I do this as a hobby, people that do this for a living should be pros/experts.

KF