Jazz for aficionados

O-10,
It's sort of like politics. Either you define and defend yourself, or others will do it for you. 'Others' are trying to define Jazz. Although the odds are overwhelming, I for one, am going down swinging. 'Others' have already destoryed: Rock & Roll, Gospel, Blues, R&B, Country and Western, and Country. Jazz and Blue Grass are now under attack and have been for a long time. Once they go under, that will be the end of AMERICAN music. We will be a big ball of diversified multicultured, internationalist noise.
Classical is under attack also, but it's not American in orgin. Who is attacking this music? The below average, The average, the wannabes, the non talented, the 'if they can do it, I can do it', the 'I should be able to be WHATEVER I DESIRE to be' crowd.

Buy and enjoy the good stuff while yuu can.

Cheers

****It is not spanish and the indians were wiped out eons ago. So what could it be?****

C'mon man, let's stay focused. Nobody said anything about Indians; only as concerns the influence on the Peruvian music that you brought up earlier; and there it is undeniable.

Now, Spanish you ask? You better believe it! Go a little deeper into the history of this music. Don't rely only on liner notes; they ususally only tell a small piece of the story. The traditions in this music run very deep.

For starters: where do you think the prominence of the guitar and, more specifically, the "laud" and "tres" came from? Spain; but more specifically, the Arabs by way of Spain. The Moors invaded Spain and brought with them these instruments, their tuning and way of playing them. Then there is those pesky issues of harmony and form. Show us one example of native African music that uses harmony and form in a way remotely resembling that in the type of Latin music that we are discussing; or in Jazz for that matter. Please understand, and I will say it again: the African contribution to this music is obvious and huge; but it is far from the only one.

Jazz was created by African-Americans. Not folks in africa. We are talking about people of African decent. Pay attention. Guitars? other instruments? That's not 'influence'!

Influence is when one thing changes another. Show me how Arabs have changed Jazz. Spainards. Really? One example of influence and change: Be-Bop! Dizzy and the boys started playing it, and almost everyone after that began to play it also. There was no law that said they had to, they were 'influenced' by the new music.

Individual players can be influenced quite easily. Miles with the fusion thingy. All he did was open the door for a lot of no talented wannabes. BUT JAZZ is an entire genre. It's not as easily influenced. The main thing about influence is this, once influenced, you never go back. Being the maker of certain instruments does not qualify as influence on the music played using those instruments.

Dizzy went to cuba a lot and played with cubans. He may have cut an Lp or two. That is not influence. Unless he played with latin motifs for the rest of his career. Otherwise it was just a project to cut a LP. Something new.

Duke Ellington went on a tour of the middle east to find new music and cut some LPs based on the music. He wanted to improvise over all the different types of music. But, he said it all had a 'sameness' to it. So he made the LP, but not the one he had invisioned. He then went back to being The Duke! He was not influenced! Just a project that didn't work out as he thought it would.

Influence does not mean playiong latin music or playing with different instruments or singing in a different language. Influence is much much more. It changes how composers think in writing the music. It changes the creators. It changes the trajectory of the entire genre.

As far as I can see be-bop has beee the only real change to Jazz. Hard bop is just a natural progression of bop. All this avant garde, and free stuff are just failed efforts to change the tracjectory of the music.

The Arabs had nothing to do with it. hahahahahahahah I always thought they beheaded folks for even playing music. I know the taliban does.

Using your line of logic, we could say, the Big Bang has had the biggest influence on Music. Lauds INDEED!

Cheers

OK, Rock. I'm done. You just don't get it. You are so intent on being right, that you have closed your mind to a perspective that can bring one a deeper understanding and appreciation of the music; and all music for that matter. If you care to learn, read my comments a little more carefully, and try not to let your ego cloud and distort what I am saying.

****'Others' have already destoryed: Rock & Roll, Gospel, Blues, R&B, Country and Western, and Country. Jazz and Blue Grass are now under attack and have been for a long time. Once they go under, that will be the end of AMERICAN music. We will be a big ball of diversified multicultured, internationalist noise. Classical is under attack also, but it's not American in orgin. Who is attacking this music? The below average, The average, the wannabes, the non talented, the 'if they can do it, I can do it', the 'I should be able to be WHATEVER I DESIRE to be' crowd.****

Jeez! What can I say? At best, a sadly pessimistic outlook on what music, and it's role in culture is all about. That you should think that art of any kind can be attacked and destroyed that easily is really unfortunate. Once again, the irony of what you say is staring you in the face and you don't open yourself up to seeing it. The Spanish tried to "destroy" the music of the African slaves by banning drums, and banning their religious symbols. And do you know what happened? They (slaves) substituted other instruments including a simple wooden crate to use as percussion instruments. That crate became known as "el cajon" (literally, "box"), and a fixture in a lot of Caribbean music. The attempts to ban their religious symbols prompted them to substitute Christian saints' names in an amalgam that became "Santeria", which became a significant influence in Afro-Cuban music (jazz). Creativity can't be destroyed; it evolves.

Anyway, I really am done. I gave it my best shot.

Peace. Or should I say, paz.

PAX to you also.

Cheers