I think it's all personal and relative here. I mean, everyone has different gear out there, everyone!..even the audiophile/reviewers for magazines have completely different setup's.
That all said, you could go a number of dirrections. You could do the 2 channel w/subwoofer and pre/pro setup, which many audiophiles do. This setup makes sense for 2 channels guys, or those who wish to keep things simple, but want to spend the bulk of their money on heigher end gear in a certain budget...which may be right up your alley!
All you'd need to do is keep it 2 channel (either full range or satalite fronts), add a MUST NEED subwoofer, AND a dedicated A/V pre-pro. This is a MUST for properly processing DD/DTS! You can't get the same results by simply processing in the DVD player or source, and going straight to your 2 channel preamp. This is never as good.
The next audio alternative is of course to invest in some high quality satalites that will do justice to movies and music both, IN YOUR ROOM/SETUP! The speaker selection is key/paramount here for best results, far more than the gear!
If your setup is such that you can sit closer to the speakers in relation to the ceiling and sidewalls, or you have very good acoustics and treatment in the room, then you can get away with higher end traditional music monitors(i.e., tweeter over mid/bass drivers) IF NEED BE. But I'd still like to see multiple driver arrays or horns and or more active designs to maximize the focus, dynamics, solidity of image, impact, speed, and pressence that you NEED for a properly potent home theater system! Most people fall short here, and don't know what they're doing.
If you sit back further from your setup, have low ceilings accordingly, and or have to have your speakers near the sidewalls to boot, you must consider the above mentioned Dappolito, THX, Horn loaded, or other more "controlled focused" designs. Otherwise, you need major acoustics in place to negate first order reflections from destroying your sound!...and they will do just that. You can thus look foreward to a soft, un-involving, smeared, dynamically wispy, faint, and generally confused sound if you don't take care here. (20 years and 6 high end audio stores worth of experience talking here).
All that considered, you have to ask yourself what you're room/setup would involve before you can properly adress your speaker choices in my experience...this is critical.
Your choices also depend on HOW BIG YOUR ROOM IS!
Narrow down your room considerations, and I'd recommend "no lose" choices for your needs, sure. |
Scrap the 2 channel HT stuff...unless you are Amish, no 2 chanel can give you that theater feeling, dont drink the Kool-Aid! Get a good sub, (pay attention to Sub if you are going to use it for music) get a beefy center that has the same drivers as your fronts, and dont worry so much about matching the backs to the fronts, for serious SACD and DVD-A it is more critical though. Get 5.1 or 7.1 set-up with a good size screen and you will be in heaven, just remember to scrap the 2 channel theater idea. One more thing, for gods sake dont follow the 80HZ THX cross-over bullshit, that is a "standard" set for budget reasons, not performance. |
"...unless you are Amish, no 2 chanel can give you that theater feeling" (Chadnliz)
I dissagree. I personally know that a QUALITY 2 channel setup is much better than 5 or more channels of mediocrity, ANY DAY!! Again, I speak from over 15 solid audiophile years, and from working in 6 audio chain stores, having done custom theater as well. Setup is key, but quaility is better than quantity when it gets down to it, if you ask me.
Yes, multichannel movies is better when done right for the effect. However, you can still maximize a great experience from 2.1. Things just must be done right.
"...One more thing, for gods sake dont follow the 80HZ THX cross-over bullshit, that is a "standard" set for budget reasons, not performance. (Chadnliz)
Once again, THX spent thousands of hours of research coming up with this setting, to know that Chadnliz is WRONG!!!
I've done more theaters than most any here will ever think of doing in their life time, for a living as well as for personal pleasure. And I find that the 80hz setting is a superb AND MOST OFTEN NECESSARY setting spot for a crossover!...given the nature of the gear selections, at the very least!
Even large comercial theaters, utilize 118 db horn drivers mated with 15" mid/bass woofers, that mate 18" active subs at the 80HZ CROSSOVER! Why? Because it works!
Most typical anemic, low sensitivity/efficiency passive crossover speakers for home use NEED ALL THE DYNAMIC HELP THEY CAN GET!...I promise. 80hz helps (especially receivers)even separates based speaker systems get the best dynamic range possible, leaving an active sub to handle the more demanding bass!
You can dink around all you want with either full range, 40,50,63,or whatever crossover points. But day in and day out, a properly integrated 80hz system will smack the hell out of a system if you do it right!
I garantee my systems set to 80hz will stomp most any typical audiophiles setup running "full range" from the mains! It works.
Bottom line, trust the people who do this for a living, get paid millions, earned "Oscars" for their contributions, and are used to mixed the biggest block busters around! THX is doing just fine if you ask me. And I own mostly audiophile stuff, but respect and know what THX can do in the right hands.
It's the "user error" on the other end that usually makes ANY SYSTEM fall short...Which is why you pay pro's to do it right in the first place...user error and lack of skill/experience. |
Not true, the 80HZ was set-up for a standard and was budget minded to keep theater owners happy, are you telling me that if you had say a Legacy center speaker wich can cycle down to near 20HZ it would be better to run it small and crossover at 80? You are correct about 2 good channels is better then 5 channels of "mediocrity" most members here already understand quality and can surely get good sound with using rules of position and acoustics, after all this is supposed to be a Audiophile website.
I do stand firm on my position that 80HZ is no way a end all be all to good home theater reproduction, after all a pooorly set up 80hz theater can sound poor also. This falls firmly in the realm of personal prefrence, I have had 4 systems for theater since the introduction of Dolby Pro Logic and I too know something about getting this right, it is also fair to note that THX on alot of gear is simply a badge of honor and doesnt amount to much at all, Lucas' has started handing these Labels out way too often IMHO.
As far as the millions in research and Oscar's for the industry folk, THX was pulled out of thin air, it is simply a set of guidelines created by few and accepted by many, they created it, packaged it and did a good job of marketing it and good for them but that still doesnt change the fact it is merely a set of parameters based on the opinions of the staff involved....it also was just a tittle they gave themselves, Michael Jackson named himself the "King of Pop"......that doesnt make it so though.
At the end of the day, it is still your opinion and mine, and neither means a whole hell of alot, I do respect your opinion, I just have my own..and I happen to be right hehe |
"...the 80HZ was set-up for a standard and was budget minded to keep theater owners happy, are you telling me that if you had say a Legacy center speaker wich can cycle down to near 20HZ it would be better to run it small and crossover at 80?" (Chadnliz)
Yes, I'm saying just that! Having not even heard that Legacy center, that same 20hz capable (maybe strong enough for music, but not for synthesized movie effects of high dynamic ranges!) center channel will indeed sound more dynamic when only asked to run as "small"!!! I'd do the very same on full range Wilson's or JM Lab's Utopia's, you bet!!!!!
20-80hz will sound much much more dynamic and potent on an ACTIVE POWERED SUBWOOFER system instead, yes!!!! I've seen this time and time again! Your passive crossover Legacy speaker is like any full range speaker, in that it has the dynamic limitations that other SIMILARLY DESIGNED passive home audio speakers posses. And that's limitations in the inherent "LIMITED EFFICIENCY PASSIVE DESIGN!" The amps driving the bass in these systems is limited in the control of the drivers by the passive crossover in the speakers, not to mention the amps have to usually driver the midrange and tweeters, further limiting efficiency!!! This is why taking the same speaker, and letting the amps drive the upper bass info on up, and diverting the much too demanding bass to a MUCH MORE CAPPABLE POWERED SETUP, is the better dynamic option!...and THX knows this from experience...I happen to as well. (again, I've sold Wilson MAXX's, Dunlavy SCVI's, Thiel 7.2's, Etc). Of course, the subs have to be up to the task, and proper for room size. Basically, sure, the Legacy will likely have good bass for music, but will be behind by a lot with competing powered 15" active powered subs! They're just much more dynamically capable!
Ok, lets review...the Legacy 20hz center with dual 15" drivers vs. even the lowely paradigm Servo 15" sub!!!! The Servo 15 active sub stomps the dual 15"'s in the Legacy!..garanteed!...GARANTEED! I've heard/seen all this before. Been there, done that!
I've been to all the shows, sold it all at 6 stores, installed it all, and have heard it all at way to many audiophiles homes to know different! Passive speakers doing bass vs. active speakers doing the same deep bass...victory goes to the "quality" active sub setup, every time! Now of course we're talking about power output and dynamic range/ability...not musical speed, "Q", and accuracy. But for movies, the fact that the audiophile speaker is bottoming out and distorting from too much dynamic bass info down low, negates all that "accuracy" anway! The stuff mixed into movies is just too powerful and demanding for typical speakers. That's the way it is.
So, you bet ya!..I'd take that same full range speaker, and have it sounding SUPER POWERFUL and dynamic in no time, crossing it over right, and setting it up well. Playing it"FULL RANGE" WOULND'T BE IT, I garantee it!
But hey, try for yourself.
As for Michael Jackson and THX, millions, maybe billions regard them as authorities on what they do. I guess the same can't be said for us! . The difference between us however, is that I do High end home theater/audio/video systems for a living, and have worked on several six figure systems, and am a respected expert in this stuff. Still, what ever floats your boat....it's all good. Some's just better than others if you ask me.
I've done this far too long to be persuaded by an audiophile with an oppion. I've meet too many of them for the last 20 years. And I can still put together better systems than most any I've met. |
