Do I want a sub with VR-4jr's?

Superfly676,

Semantics may cause me to misinterpret what you hope to gain with a sub. I may think of "punch" in a different way....I think of a tight bass as "punchy"...it kind of hits you hard. So please disregard this if I have misinterpreted your meaning....

There is not much "punch" in the frequencies below about 100 Hz...I fear you may be disappointed in your sub addition. Punch can come from a number of factors....a big amplifier with exceptional damping factor, a critically damped base driver, a speaker cabinet with no resonances or tuned ports (these are hard to drive), and the phase alignment between drivers: tweeter, mid and base. Very light and stiff driver materials can increase the punchy sound but this needs to be very carefully balanced with ringing resonance distortion (like a bell, a stiff cone can vibrate at certain frequencies which can make the bass sound boomy, especially a challenge with metal drivers). All these factors affect how much "punch" you get in the base.

I have not heard a woofer really deliver "punch". Such low frequencies simply do not lend themselves to producing that effect. Sub woofers produce sounds from vibrations (inaudible but you feel them) to a powerful deep "thud" (like a tyrannosaur is supposed to make as it walks beside your house).

Of course, you could eliminate the band limiting filter on your sub woofer, which would allow it to deliver "punch", however, the sub sound will become directional and disassociate from your other speaker drivers, producing a confusing soundstage to the ears.

I agree with Shadorne. I guess we'll have to wait until you report back, but the VS's inside of a room with boundaries actually almost covers almost everything audible. It shakes the floor without a sub. The sub offering a few of the bottom Hz will almost be unnoticeable, and bass energy it could brings if turned to higher levels than natural will muddy up the rest of the sound (artificially added bass).

Rob

Yeah, you want a sub. You've gotta have that foundation if you want to be a true playa. Rel is the most musical, but velodyne DD is close and the built in EQ, TV graph hookup, mic, remote control, etc makes it the clear winner in this arena. On my DD15, I have different EQ and sub volumes set for dramas, action movies, jazz/classical, rock, and EQ defeat all available off of the remote. You can't do that with a rel, unfortunately.

I would like to hear a REL sub based on their reputation for blending seamlessly. I think that the DD line up ultimately will sound better due to being able to tweak them to fit the room space accoustically. The 4jr's are supposed to play down to about mid 20hz range. On paper, the sub would be useless. I just think that, in my room, I could add a bit of bottom end to give depth.

Shadorne... I think that perhaps you are right about punch. I have been a percussionist for a long time and what I am not hearing is not punch per say...it is more depth or weight to the sound. Maybe that is more feel in the barely audible LF range.

I think that the gain will be a small one, but small is a relative term. I am sure it will be more of a gain than cables..... or racing stickers on a honda civic.

Let the sub auditioning begin..........

"I think that the gain will be a small one"

I would disagree here. Do this right, and the performance gain will be monumental.

You switch cables, and you say "do I hear something different? i dont know" so you change them back and forth and can't pick anything up.

You add a quality sub to your system, and you will have:
* Bass dynamics
* Very clear fleshing out of soundstage and dynamics throughout the rest of the spectrum
* Other stuff, but i'm in a meeting and people are giving me looks so I need to close this