What's the greatest bargain in SET these days?

Alamrg, I think this Positive Feedback review excerpt could help explain why Jazdoc's PX-25 "ran out of gas at mid-high listening levels" with his Daedalus Ulysses:

Although I know that Lou did not design this speaker specifically for low-powered tubes, the Ulysses can certainly deliver when driven by them. Is your passion the gorgeous sound of low power tubes? If so this speaker can accommodate you, though within limits. I felt at the 12-watt push-pull Audio Space amp was probably at the lower limit of power you could use and still get realistic dynamics. The 28-watt 845 Consonance SET performed very nicely.

How about mid- to high-power solid-state or tube designs? The Ulysses was built for high power. When I used 15 watts of class D power I loved the unlimited realistic dynamics that made the music seem so natural. My only regret was I didn't have a chance to try this speaker with some high-power tube amps.

Which type of amplification/source did I prefer with the Ulysses? Usually, whatever I was listening to at the time. Pressed for a decision on one, I have to give the nod to the Consonance Cyber 845, and my analog rig (VPI Scoutmaster, Shelter 501, and Aqvox Phono 2Ci, Gingko Cloud 9) which together gave me some of the most extraordinarily cohesive sound my room has ever been graced with. If you read Lou Hinkley's quote "coupling high efficiency with high power handling makes for effortless reproduction of music" it is obvious that he prefers a high-power amp for these speakers. I look at the Ulysses low-power affability as a big plus. This chameleon-like transducer is friendly to many different types of amps, and it truly lets you enjoy the characteristics of each and every amp. Rare indeed and a dream for audiophiles who enjoy the sound of more than one type of gain device.

More so then tonal imbalances that would be associated with a "difficult load". if there is a problem, I think it will be related more to a flea powered SET "running out of gas" sooner due to the DeCapo combo of low end extension and moderate efficiency and resulting in (soft) clipping that has to impact dynamics. It exponentially takes more power to produce lower frequencies with smaller speakers/drivers, , so even modest bass extension can have significant impact.

Dark,

Good to hear from you. IT's been awhile.

I do not think any good speaker designed for high power amps can perform equally well with low power. It might transform in a still musically desirable way in some case, but there will be an inevitable loss of "accuracy".

But no speaker vendor will willingly tell you this. They will say their speakers work well with most anything within certain parameters at best because, well, they need to sell speakers and its a pot shot to predict whether a customer will be happy or not before the fact.

11-25-14: Darkmoebius
Almarg, I think this Positive Feedback review excerpt could help explain why Jazdoc's PX-25 "ran out of gas at mid-high listening levels" with his Daedalus Ulysses....

Thanks very much for the reference, Darkmoebius. Note, though, that it was not the PX-25 which Jazdoc tried with his Ulysses. It was the "high current" version of the Jota, which is rated at 24 watts.

Best regards,
-- Al

Okay, Folks,

Here's where this starts to get really interesting. :-)

I spoke to Brian Smith over at Audio Note Kits. Very nice, very energetic guy. He was adamant that the Audio Note Kit 1 in its standard configuration would have no trouble at all driving the De Capo's in a medium-sized room. "You will be able to play those speakers louder than you would want to listen with no trouble," he opined, or words to that effect. He said that the Audio Note Kit 1 is a "ballsy" amplifier in part because of the design (including the transformers) and also in part because of the full preamplifier stage built-in. As for out of the gate upgrades, he suggested upgrading the capacitors. He kindly offered to give me that upgrade at dealer cost and throw in free shipping, which would bring me in under my $2500 budget. So, there is one option. By the way, it would be possible to upgrade that kit, bit by bit, as I wish. He suggested leaving a little extra wire in a particular place during the build in order to accommodate the fancier transformers down the road.

Allow me to just add here that the prospect of building a kit does sound rather fun… I haven't done that since I built my Seduction phono preamp.

I also spoke with Galen Carol, who knows both Reference 3A and Art Audio as an authorized dealer. He didn't really have much experience with the PX-25 amplifier – he told me that he had maybe sold one of them over the years. Since the departure of Joe Fratus, the former US distributor, he isn't really recommending Art Audio gear much to his customers. Seems that Joe's departure from Art Audio wasn't entirely amicable and he seems to feel that the service and support situation in the US at this point is somewhat nebulous. I, myself, sent an email to the current Art Audio distributor and haven't yet received a reply after several days.

In some ways, the most interesting conversation was with David Dicks, who is the proprietor of Commonsense Audio, which sells the Audio Nirvana line of speakers and amplifiers. He is a very fun, opinionated (but not in an obnoxious way at all) and interesting guy to talk to. He is first and foremost a speaker builder and designer. He has created an enormous line of what he claims to be the best, full range drivers around. And if you look at the website, he has a staggering array of components for sale. For quite a long time, they made finished speakers, but as the business grew he didn't want to have to hire more people so he has gotten out of the cabinet business but has a number of cabinet building partners who will make finished cabinets for his designs. Anyway, if you go to the customer feedback page, it is full of ecstatic comments from happy customers. He claims that even though all his products have a money back guarantee, he has only had half a dozen returns of his speaker products in all the years he's been selling them. And the prices are extremely reasonable.

As for the 300 B SET amplifier…
This is a new product for them, to go along with their push-pull tube amp and a class D amp that they also sell. It is their best amplifier. He did not design the amp. It was designed by a friend of his, an engineer who worked for Boeing in the past and also for an amplifier company. Interestingly, David told me that he never liked 300 B amps in the past because most of the ones he heard only had "the magical midrange" because they sounded rolled off at the extremes. His engineer friend thought he could design a first-rate 300 B-based amp and set about doing so over the course of three years. David loved the results and took steps to bring it to production.

The amplifier is built at an offshore-owned factory in China. The transformers are enormous and heavy – the amp weighs the better part of 60 pounds. (He agreed that transformer quality was the make or break element in a great 300 B amp.) Internals are kept simple by using a simple attenuator for volume control rather than a full-blown preamp stage. If you take a look at the photo of the innards of the amp, it looks extremely clean and well done.

I questioned the extraordinarily reasonable price of this amplifier, given his contention that it's the best 300 B amplifier he could build. He explained that his philosophy is to sell his products at a fair and reasonable profit, not to make as much money as he possibly can, even though he could easily charge at least twice the current asking price for that amplifier.

He repeatedly emphasized that his speakers would smoke my De Capo's. And, truth be told, for what I got for my Manley gear I could buy his 300 B amp and a pair of his speakers. :-)

Finally: I have it on good authority that Bottlehead has a sale coming up in the next couple of days which would bring the cost of the Paramount power amp and Be Pre-preamp down substantially.

So, lots of choices! As always, interested in your thoughts.

By the way, I think I have eliminated Decware from the pack. It turns out that the 30 day money back guarantee does not apply to orders that have been customized, such as adding extra inputs or other upgrades. At this point, I think I have sufficient options to put that one to bed.