Jazz for aficionados

Orpheus10 wrote: "No amount of practice, school or many other musical attributes will enable a musician to mesmerize a crowd of people with his improvisational skills on his chosen instrument night after night. "Only" jazz musicians can do this, and not all of them; it's a gift that's reserved for those who are recognized as being at the very highest pinnacle of musicianship."

There are a couple of things not true about this. Leaving aside the statement that only jazz musicians could do this, which is frankly insulting to a great many professional musicians, and not deserving even of the mention I give it here, I want to reply to the first part of the statement. No amount of talent, no gift, no matter how great, will be of any use whatsoever if the musician does not work VERY hard, all through his whole schooling and subsequent career, to develop these natural abilities. Period. Yes, there are geniuses, in all fields of music. But every single one of them has worked, and continues to work extremely hard to continue to develop and maintain the craft you are speaking of. The ones you mention who mesmerize audiences night after night are these individuals. For every one of them, I guarantee you there were many others equally gifted, who did not have the work ethic, or the discipline, or the drive to make it. I have known many incredible players and musicians in my life of whom this was the case, and I am sure Frogman does too. I know, Orpheus, that you think you are complimenting these artists by talking of their gifts, but many of them would consider it insulting that you are belittling their very hard work, because THAT is the reason they are at the very highest pinnacle of musicianship, without which their natural gifts would avail them nothing.

Extensive improvisation, sometimes hours long, is at the heart of classical Indian music.

learsfool, you are a classical musician. You think and speak like a classical musician. By now you should realize that "all" musicians don't even live in the same world, even when they only live blocks apart.

I'm sure the jazz musicians I knew had to learn their skills somewhere, but they did not practice. As often as they performed, they didn't need to. Yes the kind of musician I knew was rare, but I have no reason to fabricate.

Your world as a musician, is so different from the the jazz world, that you're having a hard time accepting it. You stated that all the musicians you knew were into the high end. Now I know why, "Classical music sounds like noise when it's played on less than high end equipment", but that's another subject. According to Branford Marsalis, he was the only jazz musician he knew who was into the high end. John Lee Hooker had several homes before his death, and he had Kenwood rack systems in all of them, he said he liked a "funky" sound. Musicians I knew were either working on a gig, or digging a set, and rarely sat down to listen to recorded music; of course we were both young then.

Wynton Marsalis could be one of the most perfect "Classical" trumpets ever as a result of all the things you have stated about musicians, and he could be the best "side man" ever. If you call that "Wynton bashing", so be it; but I'm using him as an example of what you think the most accomplished musicians have to be.

Erroll Garner was self taught and remained what's called an ear player. Learsfool, you are imposing your reality on a world that's foreign to you. We all do that at times.

Enjoy the music.

Rok, I wish Wynton all the success and happiness in the world, but in regard to "the music", I agree with his critics, and this is what I thought a long time ago before I even knew he had critics. As far as I'm concerned, his critics are agreeing with me, as opposed to me agreeing with his critics.

Enjoy the music.

I've got a DVD "Garth Fagan, Griot New York" , that has music composed and arranged by Wynton Marsalis. Since I had seen Garth Fagan's dancers, there was no doubt in my mind, this was going to be spectacular. The music killed it. For confirmation I stuck it in the player, and it still sucks.

Youse guys found You tubes of Wynton playing someone else's music, and it was fantastic; but nobody said Wynton couldn't play the trumpet, all of Wynton's critics said he could play the trumpet very well. I even stated that he might be the worlds best trumpet player, especially since he plays classical and jazz; but classical is not his own music. It's just when he composes and arranges that the music totally sucks. That is something that can not be debated because beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and that music is one ugly duckling to this beholder.

Enjoy the music.