Jazz for aficionados

learsfool, you are a classical musician. You think and speak like a classical musician. By now you should realize that "all" musicians don't even live in the same world, even when they only live blocks apart.

I'm sure the jazz musicians I knew had to learn their skills somewhere, but they did not practice. As often as they performed, they didn't need to. Yes the kind of musician I knew was rare, but I have no reason to fabricate.

Your world as a musician, is so different from the the jazz world, that you're having a hard time accepting it. You stated that all the musicians you knew were into the high end. Now I know why, "Classical music sounds like noise when it's played on less than high end equipment", but that's another subject. According to Branford Marsalis, he was the only jazz musician he knew who was into the high end. John Lee Hooker had several homes before his death, and he had Kenwood rack systems in all of them, he said he liked a "funky" sound. Musicians I knew were either working on a gig, or digging a set, and rarely sat down to listen to recorded music; of course we were both young then.

Wynton Marsalis could be one of the most perfect "Classical" trumpets ever as a result of all the things you have stated about musicians, and he could be the best "side man" ever. If you call that "Wynton bashing", so be it; but I'm using him as an example of what you think the most accomplished musicians have to be.

Erroll Garner was self taught and remained what's called an ear player. Learsfool, you are imposing your reality on a world that's foreign to you. We all do that at times.

Enjoy the music.

Rok, I wish Wynton all the success and happiness in the world, but in regard to "the music", I agree with his critics, and this is what I thought a long time ago before I even knew he had critics. As far as I'm concerned, his critics are agreeing with me, as opposed to me agreeing with his critics.

Enjoy the music.

I've got a DVD "Garth Fagan, Griot New York" , that has music composed and arranged by Wynton Marsalis. Since I had seen Garth Fagan's dancers, there was no doubt in my mind, this was going to be spectacular. The music killed it. For confirmation I stuck it in the player, and it still sucks.

Youse guys found You tubes of Wynton playing someone else's music, and it was fantastic; but nobody said Wynton couldn't play the trumpet, all of Wynton's critics said he could play the trumpet very well. I even stated that he might be the worlds best trumpet player, especially since he plays classical and jazz; but classical is not his own music. It's just when he composes and arranges that the music totally sucks. That is something that can not be debated because beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and that music is one ugly duckling to this beholder.

Enjoy the music.

Learsfool,
I understand the point Opheus10 is making. My passion is definitely jazz but I respect all skilled and talented musicians. Do classical musicians also improvise Learsfool? I`d like your perspective.It fascinates me when jazz musicians play an entire set(or the full evening) with no sheet music to be found anywhere. In no way do I want this to become a jazz vs classical battle(pointless arguement).I`m asking strictly for a musician`s unique vantage point.I`m convinced it takes much work and ability to master either.
Regards,

Orpheus10, this thread continues to be, without a doubt, one of the most interesting on this forum. Your passion for jazz is palpable, and you and I actually have very similar sensibilities re which performers are truly capable of communicating something to the listener. I am in basic agreement with you about Wynton in that respect, although I share Rok's feelings about Wynton's overall relevance. I am somewhat surprised we have returned to the subject of Wynton and have other thoughts about this which I will contribute when I have a little more time. For now, I would like to address your comments about the "musician's world".

I have found that there is an understandable tendency among non-musicians to romanticize the process of being a musician; I emphasize "process". The idea that in every creative musician there is a force within that is guiding, dictating, and controlling the process required to make music come out of his chosen instrument as if it were all beyond the control of the player is as romantic as one can get; the "Muse". This notion is very far from reality. We have discussed this subject previously so I am surprised that we are here again. Surprised because if we read the biographies of the great players like Bird and Trane we learn that they were incessant practicers ("shedders" as musicians, themselves, call it). They also studied a great deal; recordings, formal harmony studies, or piano wether that was their main instrument or not. I don't know who the jazz musicians you know (knew?) were, and I acknowledge that some players (have to?) devote more time to shedding than others. But, at some point, if not currently, every great player has put in a tremendous amount of practice time. Additionally, one of the things that hour upon hour of practicing teaches a player is how to achieve what previously may have taken two hours, I fifteen minutes. You would be amazed what an experienced player can accomplish in a ten minute "warm-up" before (or during!) a gig.

With all due respect, some of your comments directed at Learsfool and "his world" are not simply inaccurate, but unfair as well. Yes, a classical musician's "world" is different in many respects than a jazz musician's world. But, not nearly as different as some might think in many key respects; not the least of which is what it takes to develop the mechanics of playing an instrument (any instrument in any genre). I would encourage you to consider the fact that while they may be different worlds, they are most definitely part of the same universe; while musicians (all musicians) live in an all-together different universe than non-musicians. Great jazz players are no less mesmerized by the beauty of phrasing, elegance, tone and ultimate control of the instrument that a great classical player offers in a performance, than a classical musician is of the amazing understanding of harmony, musical looseness, and individuality that a great improviser offers. Because they live in the same universe, if not the same world, none of these are mutually exclusive; simply emphasized to different degrees.