Questions Re: Time & Phase Alignment


Some basic questions here. Hope nobody minds. Some of this stuff I don't quite understand. Have recently become very interested in T&PA after hearing both the Green Mountain C3 and Thiel 3.7 at RMAF, both of which tout this design quality and both of which were among the best speakers I've ever heard, anywhere.

Questions:

1) Basic definitions. Time-alignment means that sounds that start at two different drivers at the same instant will reach your ears at the same instant.

Phase-alignment means that there are no phase errors between drivers: the same frequency waveform, for example, produced by two drivers (in their overlap region) will be entirely in phase with each other (and thus completely reinforcing).

Are these definitions correct, correct but lacking, incorrect, or what? I find there is a lot of either misinformation or misunderstanding in the industry about these things.

2) How does a sloping baffle produce time-alignment? I really don't understand this - I would think that having the voicecoils of all drivers in the same plane would, in fact, produce time-alignment. Is the slope to compensate somehow for the crossover?

3) On that note, I don't understand why it is that 1st-order crossovers are phase-aligned. Perhaps this is stricly due to the implmentatation - a single cap produces no phase delay? But I don't think that's the case... so why is it that 1st-order xovers are said to be p-aligned and higher-order xovers are not...? Or is that, perhaps, myth?

3) Thoughts on the superiority of coincident midrange driver/tweeter vs. completely separate drivers? I certainly see the benefits of the former but it must introduce some problems as well - there must be distortions caused by the entire tweeter assy moving with the mid driver.

Thanks much in advance to someone who can shed some more light on these topics.
paulfolbrecht
May I humbly suggest you check the archives. Roy of Green Mountain has contributed a good deal of information here on Audiogon. Richard Hardesty's site offers a lot of good information as well.
Hey, you could even boldy suggest I check the archives.

I did search; the problem is always TOO MUCH information.

But I'll do that. And I've talked with Roy privately, being that I've been strongly considering the C3s. He's the best. Have not asked him technical quesions but I guess I could do that.
To supplant, perhaps, the Thiel info:
1)& 2) (Time alignment): in practical terms, the acoustic centres of the drivers (i.e. where sound originates) are aligned in the vertical plane. As tweets are typically more shallow than, say, woofers, their acoustic centre is more forward vs. the woofers'. So, sloping the baffle helps bring the acoustic centres CLOSER to being aligned. Soemtimes even, aligned. Snag: one listens to OFF axis sound (axis being the line of sound emmission from the transducer -- being vertical to the plane of said transducer).

(Phase shift & 1st order xover): all xovers intriduce phase shift -- that's what they're used for, it's part of their job, that's how they attenuate the frequencies you ask them to attenuate. The 1st order is considered less deleterious because of the gentle slope (90d /octave on paper) which, it seems, is less annoying to our ears. Snag: this puts a strain on the two drivers playing together and can cause intermodulation distortion. "Puts a strain" also means that the drivers+speaker system are/is engineered to play well in a 1st order situation: expensive or very cheap (and poorly performing).

To imagine phase, consider how we depict a sound wave -- i.e. two consecutive semi-circles on either side of a horizontal axis. Consider the crossing point on the axis as "zero" time. If the two drivers cross zero at the same time point, you are in phase.

3) There are many obvious advantages to coincident drivers, sound emanating from the same point ("single point source" i.e. "coincident") being a major advantage. There are many challenges: there is a xover anyway, intermodulation distortion, the outer cone can be a wave guide for the inner driver... (as Theil notes).
The Theil driver, BTW, is quite good and very expensive.
Cheers