Soundstage...How to determine what's right?

Newby:

It's just NOT possible for a stereo system to produce sound, on the plane of the speakers, outside the speakers when the sound from both speakers is in phase AND your speakers are set up properly. (....)

As you've phrased it, s OK:)
Listening within the usual confinements -- i.e. the room -- this can happen. It's an artefact of boundary reflections.

Redman notes:

on one of my John Klemmer albums there was a cut with a very pronounced Fender Rhodes solo. It never failed to amuse me when my friends would open the closet door to the right rear of the couch they were seated in, looking for a hidden speaker(or the Rhodes). Don't ask me how that worked.

Reflections is how that worked, probably. Nice story, btw!

TO my mind, sound-stage is a case of "all that glitters ain't gold". I got outstanding "sound-stage" using a cassette recorder -- i.e., as has been proposed before, "compression is good for sound-stage" or "sound-stage can be proportional".
"Imaging" may be a better word to use.

Well, thanks again.
Shadorne, your explanation of congestion helps a lot. That, along with your examples will give me the direction I was looking for.
Your description on tube miking in order to add harmonics brought up questions. Does the same type effect occur with amplification, processing, etc.? Is this why so many people feel that tubed components sound so much better? It would be very difficult for me to go tubes in my pre and amplifiers due to using them both for 2 channel and h/t. Would there be a significant improvement in 2 channel using a tubed cd player? Funds don't allow the ultra hi end but would like to get a bit closer.
Thanks for taking the time.

Rodman, I really appreciate your effort to share your thoughts, opinions, and experience. I'll have to play a bit and reread this thread several times to grasp all that has been shared.

It's strange and a bit disappointing that there would be such a difference in one disc to another from the same label, etc..

Newbee, once again thanks to you for sharing your thoughts on imaging. You and the others have given me so much to shoot for. Just makes this hobby that much more entertaining.
Steve

Hi Scoly1- Check out this URL(http://www.balanced.com/products/cd/Vk-D5/index.html) for an idea as far as a tubed CD player. It's what I've been using for a few years now. My previous one was a California Audio Labs Alpha/Delta CD player/DAC set-up. Either are still available on the used market(sometimes on this site, sometimes eBay) for considerably less than what's considered SOTA, but will still deliver all the music your system can process. The CAL pieces are no longer supported by anyone unfortunately(the only drawback), though I did find a shop in NY that had replacement LASER transports. Both lend themselves to the adventure of tube-tasting. BAT has a newer VK-D5 iteration that is more costly and is restricted to the tube created by the company. Happy listening!!

One more thing: Be certain to read the reviews on the VK-D5. Especially the comments on soundstage reproduction! Enjoy!

Your description on tube miking in order to add harmonics brought up questions. Does the same type effect occur with amplification, processing, etc.? Is this why so many people feel that tubed components sound so much better? It would be very difficult for me to go tubes in my pre and amplifiers due to using them both for 2 channel and h/t. Would there be a significant improvement in 2 channel using a tubed cd player? Funds don't allow the ultra hi end but would like to get a bit closer.

Yes and No. I will try to stay away from any argument about which is better. Both are good when used CORRECTLY. Good tube designs can sound pretty much identical to good solid state designs when driven below clipping...at the end of the day it boils down to the way the circuits are implemented and how they are coupled (high impedance ouput transformers often used with tubes will certainly modify the frequency response, for example - is that good or bad - your choice!).

One of the world's top Mastering Engineers, Doug Sax, and founder of Sheffield Labs still uses tubes in his mastering console (built by his brother) - so yes tubes can be used to modify the sound in line level equipment too (and very nicely in a CD player, for example). The main advantage of tubes is that they sound nice when clipping...solid state sounds terrible...and as my drum link above illustrates ...clipping is all to common....even the pop CD's you buy today often have lots of clipped signal on the CD!!! Tubes make a lot of sense for live music or recording live music if you are not sure what levels you may drive the equipment too - like an electric guitar, where musicians always crank it and tubes just sound wonderful when cranked!