Pros and Cons of built-in amps?

There seem to be a few dealer haters here and people who make stupid statements like the one Ryder makes above. "Dubious"? How would you have any idea how many emails I get from Agon members on a daily basis? And what does your level of email traffic have to do with mine? And who in the hell is Paul?

To put things straight, I mistook you as "Paulfolbrecht" Davemitchell. And Dave, I didn't have the impression that you were an audio dealer all the while, so my assumption of the emails you are getting on daily basis. Also, please note that I am not a "dealer hater" as suggested in your post, and I have bought from quite a number of dealers here, although not from you. I did not expect your rather crude remarks, more so coming off from a dealer like yourself.

To put things straight, I mistook you as "Paulfolbrecht" Davemitchell. And Dave, I didn't have the impression that you were an audio dealer all the while, so my assumption of the emails you are getting on daily basis. Also, please note that I am not a "dealer hater" as suggested in your post, and I have bought from quite a number of dealers here, although not from you. I did not expect your rather crude remarks, more so coming off from a dealer like yourself.

I would have nothing but kind words for you Ryder had you not stated that something I said was "dubious" or "exagerated". So let's be fair about who made any crude remarks.

I'm glad Mr. Gilmore has learned enough about high end audio to have gotten that far. I doubt however that he is an expert in this area like he is in making music and playing guitar.

Well I'm glad that you treat me, Bob, Ryder and David Gilmour of Pink Floyd fame and many other audio professionals in the same condescending way (people hindered by misguided beliefs or simply inexperienced).

Perhaps David Gilmour and his guitar tech (who built most of the Astoria studio setup using reputed acoustic engineers and contractors) can one day hope to reach your wisdom - as for me, I fear there is no hope and I shall remain an amateur at these audio things.

FYI: I am glad that you are pleased there are tubes in the Astoria studio. These are all in a separate room - away from the direct sound of the monitors because, as even the inexperienced know, tubes are microphonic, which is a form of distortion.

Anybody who does not hear diffrences between a SET amp (any one) and any class A or AB solid-state amp is either:

1) Listening to a very unresolving system.

2) Using the SET on inappropriate speakers (in which case it should still sound different, but bad).

3) Listening to very poorly recorded music.

4) Not listening carefully.

5) Does indeed have poor hearing or at least is poorly acquainted with the sound of live, unamplified acoustic music/vocals.

6) More than one of the above.

I will go far enough as to say this is a statement of fact. It certainly isn't intended to be inflammatory or personally degrading to anyone.

I would also say that the quality of the SET here is not too paramount as the poor quality ones will have problems - like rolled-off extremes or noise - that should still be *audible*, and will still have much or most of the characteristic single-ended tube sound.

I have listened to some push-pull tube amps *with moderate feedback* that do sound A LOT like a typical push-pull solid-state amp, but single-ended tubes with little to no feedback are quite another thing.