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Small room, "budget priced" speaker advice, please

Hi,

I recently sold my dearly beloved, old Vandersteen 2C's here on Audiogon (and I hope SgtPeppers is loving them at this moment!) :-) I did this because in our remodeled house, my new listening room (which will double as a guest room) is just too small for the 2C's. The Spousal Acceptance Factor was just too low. ;-)

I have a PS Audio Elite-Plus integrated amp for power (around 70 W/Ch) and a soon-to-be-shipped-off-for-a-refurb Sota Sapphire for an analog front end (I have "miles" of vinyl)! I will also get a CD player at some point.

For now, I need to find a pair of best-of-breed, truly "budget" speakers. By "budget," I'm talking upper limit of $850/pair. (Gone are my free-spending, single days... I'm a dad now...) :-)

Listening habits: lots of 60's and 70's folk and rock, some jazz, Donald Fagen/Steely Dan, a little classical. Listening volume: not too loud. Sonic preferences: I value transparency and imaging/soundstage. Bass should be accurate above all, as opposed to chest-pounding powerful.

I've looked at Paradigms, which I know are highly regarded at lower price points. Trouble is, our one, local dealer is primarily a TV/home theater outfit, so you're trying to hear them in a showroom crammed with other stuff... you know the drill. I've also hit a high end shop. Listened to a pair of PSB small towers and disliked them; they sounded muddy and veiled to me. Listened to a pair of the smallest Rega's and liked them quite a bit, but would want to go back to listen again. I even wrote to PS Audio for advice; they recommended the "baby" Epos monitors, but they're out of my price range.

Thanks if you've read this far. Knowing how subjective all this is, I'd still welcome any advice you have to offer about what I should try to audition.
rebbi
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knownothing
1,627 posts
 
Rebbi,

It is cool that you got some extra kick from the Arros by moving them around a bit.

I was thinking that if you want to try loading the speakers, you might want to do it before you settle on final position because it will affect how they sound in your room and you will probably have to go through the positioning process again anyway. Maybe there is no need to load - see below.

from the website:

"Mass Loading: All Totem columns work very well without any type of mass loading. However if stability is an issue or if there is a particular over emphasis in the bass in the room they are used in, then mass loading can be experimented with. Variables such as electronics, wiring and room dynamics play a definite role and therefore the option is there for your experimentation. One may use: clean dry sand,silica sand, dry particulate matter or non-odor kitty litter."
rebbi OP
1,326 posts
 
I'd like to get some help here from somebody with better ears than mine. The dealer who sold me the Arro's offered to come by and help me with installation, and I may very well take him up on that. Besides, this was the first pair of Arro's he'd ever sold, so he was eager to hear them. :-)

The bass response from these tiny things is astonishing... but since I'd expected bass response to diminish as they came farther out from the rear wall, I'm not sure if what I'm hearing currently is "real bass" or some sort of room-interaction bloat. Hmmmm....
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,475 posts
 
Well, if you're hearing it, chances are its real bass alright and rest assured if the only thing that changed was speaker location, it is due to room acoustics. That is normal. I've never met a room that did not have acoustics (for better or for worse).

The main question is does it sound "right" or better to you or not than other locations? If not, try tweaking the exact location a bit and play with toe in. With rear ported speakers in particular, toe out might help as well. Toe in/out will affect how the sound produced out the rear by the port interacts with the room and walls behind as well as what you hear coming out of the front. I'd try playing with toe in/out first and see if you can achieve a better balance overall.

I've done both toe in and out to good effect with my rear ported Dynaudio monitors on heavy Dynaudio stands. They are not unlike the Totems in terms of general design.

If this doesn't work to your satisfaction, try adding the weight next as well as suggested by our friend Knownothing, who I'm suspecting in fact actually knows quite a lot

Nice of the dealer to offer. Always nice to get live feedback from a different set of ears.
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knownothing
1,627 posts
 
Rebbi,

Check these out:

http://virtuelvis.com/archives/2004/09/audio-test-cd

http://www.soundstage.com/audiohell/audiohell200111.htm

I tried to follow Arve Bersvendsen's placement ratio recommendations for my room (first link) as it seemed the less complicated and more versatile of the various placement methods described, and it really improved the sound of my system in my room. I did the best to adhere to one of the recommended placement ratios that worked with my room shape and furniture placement, and then moved the speakers slightly from there and played with toe in to fine tune. You will know when you get it right because you will have an immediate "Now That's What I'm Talkin' About" moment.

I also found his test CD with 63 different tones useful to see where frequencies were dropping out or being enhanced. I even bought an inexpensive digital sound meter from Radio Shack to assist my ears in this exercise. Aside: it is remarkable the difference between these measurements taken 1m directly in front of the speaker baffle versus from your listening position. Even when the speakers are well placed and sounding good, the frequency response at my listening position is far less flat compared to right in front of the speaker itself!

This an inexact science at best, but careful placement can make a huge difference in overall system performance, your happiness, and the resultant longevity of gear in your listening room. :-)
rebbi OP
1,326 posts
 
Knownothing,

Thanks a lot for the links. I'll use them as a starting point. I know I'm still not at the "That What I'm Talkin' About" position! ;-)
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