Single driver speakers - opinions

Hello Joe (Trelja)

The pleasure was all mine.
Meeting you in person was something I planed on for quite some time now. You are in fact a stand up guy and passionate audiophile. Besides, I like someone who speak his mind with out reservations and sugar coating.
(please say hello to your other half and beautiful little princess. :))

As to experience with SD CarderSound speakers, yes they sure are more then meets the eye. Sound wise - I would definitely be proud to have this sound quality in my own system. Bass was more the satisfying, soundstage was first class on TyBones. Madison, excel in bass reproduction but expecting the same image and soundstage from 8" driver as the TyBone's 4 1/4"-er is simply impossible. Both awesome speaker.

I have express my concerns with this kind of design.
No, it has nothing to do with they way they sound.
It is the size and WAF, which for some may or may not be an issue.

Hearing Jeff's speakers for the second time made me curious about the possibilities of this approach (SD double horn design).
So much , that I am more then anxious to build the similar speakers for my own pleasures.

There are some issues that I would like to point out to Jeff and I will do that privately....it will hopefully make his life easier....in a long run.

The enclosures are definitely not difficult (but can be) to build but as the product that will have to satisfy all but the most discriminating customers, there is room for improvements (build, tech, appearance wise - sound wise there are no issues).

Ones again pleasure to meet you Joe and congrats to Jeff for wonderful speakers - Bravo.

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Kijanki & Mapman

Measurements and state of the art equipment is more then welcome for big name companies, and I hope it will reflect in the quality and sound of the END product.

But keep in mind that all of the expenses are pass on to YOU - the client.

That is why the Revel top models will never be priced to meet the budget of regular JOE. It does make perfects sense though if one wants a ready product with good resell value and second to non cosmetics.

I have never imply that DIY speakers can shamed top speaker designs (commercially available).

What can be achieved , is the very close to live music reproduction that can make you stop looking for more.
Take all the benefits of SD design and possibility of do it it yourself (if your are persistent enough) and it is IMO no brainer. Just imagine the saving, performance and smile on your face .....knowing , what would cost you if you were going to find that kind of sound - in commercial designs.

I am not saying it is THE WAY, just something to think about or just another alternative.

I have had some very well known brands in my system (costing thousands of $) and I am telling you - I would be more then happy with SD speakers that are well design.

There are many SD speakers widely available form respected sources if DIY is not appealing to you. Auditioning quite a few, let me to believe that it is possible to build one with minimum trade offs. But keep in mind , NOT ALL are as good as the ones I have mentioned (YMMV) and there is plenty more that I have not heard yet.

So if you, or anyone for that matter is interested in this design - I would suggest some reading and most important - audition, audition, audition.
It is the only way to tell , if it is what you seek - MUSIC.

Regards
Mariusz

I can use the same types of test equipment as the large manufacters. Its realy not a issue. This gear is available at a fair price. I use UVW test facilitys and Madisound plus my own. Still what matters is sound quality in home. And you can test all you want wont tell you much about the sound quality in room unless somethings amiss.

Mrjsark. I have used small BLHs from Johnk and the later upgraded to a Madison (double mouthed BLH) from Carder sound. I’ll never ever go back to a multi-driver speaker again.

I use low(ish) powered SET/SEP amplifiers, and the benign impedance curve that a single driver presents allows my amplifiers to work at their very best. The sound is totally effortless and dynamic; I really get the feeling that the amplifiers are idling even at high volume levels.

The dynamic quality and speed of a single driver is so addictive that a multi-driver speaker simply puts me to sleep.

Sound staging is out of this world. The double mouthed horn of the Cardersound throws a huge soundstage, not unlike what I experience at the opera, yet it can be very intimate and gentle as a recital.

I see a few post that make stereotypical (excuse the pun) criticism of single driver speakers, but they are all pure ignorance. I think if anything, it’s a matter of taste. We simply don’t all appreciate or like the same things.

I think your comment, “awesome speakers when done right” is spot on.

Regards
Paul

Thanks Paul,

and You are right on the money. Speed, soundstage, effortless presentation and accurate portray of "emotions" surrounding particulare recording.

There is definitely something seductive about "Single Driver"
speakers to be sure. Are they perfect? :) Nothing is.
You guys can help me out with my next statement.......

IMO, it takes a bit of growing-up, seasoning if you will -
to appreciate the qualities of horns & single-driver speakers.
I feel the same way about SET amps or tubes in general.
Even though I am relatively young, my understanding of music and the way it should be portray by speakers and associated gear is plain & simple. There are planty of speakers and electronics that sound good or great. But I am sure that "good or great" in most cases is usualy not enough.....I hope I could speak for most of us......obviously I can not, so let me place IMO - just in case someone disagree with that statment.

To get back to your post Paul,
yes - SET amp (Joe's Consonance Cyber 211 mono-blocks) sounded way better with CarderSound then SQ integrated (tube, moded) and my own RWA Sig.30.2 t-amp , which we brought that day for audition.

I would also think that good OTL amp might be another alternative with potential to do those speakers justice.

I personaly had very high hopes for RWA amp but it simply prove to be poor match (it worked great with Rethm Saadhanas though). I also brought Isabella (RWA) preamp which did not disappoint - to bad we haven't had a chance to use its build-in DAC and swap some tubes (Amperex BBoys and Mullards that I had in my car).I am sure that with little tweaking we could have raise its performence few bars higher.

Paul,
you are one lucky man to own Madisons, have the room to do them justice and angel for a wife :)

Regards

Mariusz

You have to live with single driver for a while. Then listen to multi-way to appreciate the degradation in sound.
Also I am not getting any H-F boost. That is more a characteristic of high efficiency single driver.
A small room is helpful to boost the bass.
I would not go over 4" as they become too directional when larger than that IMHO.