2. amps-preamps
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Clayton Audio Class A amps. Need amp advice

Hi Guys,

I am looking to change my amps and for a few reasons.

First because I just upgraded my DAC from the great PS Audio DirectStream to the incredible Bricasti M1 DSD USB DAC. I love the Bricasti and it has shown that in my system it could offer me more with a more resolving and neutral amp IMO.

I am currently am using the wonderful sounding CJ Premier 12 mono tube amps. I love them and tubes in general but my speakers are the great Ascendo C8 Renaissance and look to present a somewhat benign load being 88 efficient and 6ohm but they are unique and have an internal firing 21 cm Kevlar Bass driver that is great but stubborn and the speakers I think will really shine with a iron fist control of that driver.

I love tubes, always have and always will but I grown tires of a flabby bottom which is exasperated by a unique and somewhat difficult to grip bass driver set up I spoke about above.

I want an amp that can give me as much tube sound as possible but with Grip and bottom end. I know this is a lot to ask for in the used $5k to $7k price range.

I have read and it seem like the Clayton offer exactly what I am looking for but wanted to hear from some of you guys if anyone has ever heard them or know of them or anything. Any info would really be appreciated. Here is the info on my speakers and I will also list the rest of my system in case you think that is helpful. Thanks

C8 Renaissance
Technical Data
Principle
• Three-Way with SASB bass unit (TOS Off)
(current damped outer driver with semi symmetrical band pass)
• Four-Way with SASB bass unit (TOS On)
Dimensions (W/H/D)
• 28 / 80 / 40 (without Base)
• 28 / 108 / 40 (with Base)
Weight
35 kg
Frequency Range
29 Hz (-3 dB) – 32.000 Hz
Power Rating
350 W Program (min)
Impedance
6 Ohm
Sensivity
88 dB / 1W/m
Outer Chassis (COAX)
• 25 mm Neodymium-fabric-tweeter
• 18 cm Woofer with XP cone
Inner Chassis
• 21 cm Chassis, Kevlar cone
TOS Chassis
• Ribbon-tweeter
TOS Function
• switchable (TOS Unit - Dipole AN / AUS)
Sockets
• Single / BiWiring Base
Dimensions (W/H/D)
28 / 18 / 40 cm
Weight
11 kg

Ascendo C-8 Renaissance Speakers (Germany) Speaker
Purist Audio Design Corvus Praesto Revision 2.5m Bi-Wire Speaker cable
Darwin TRUTH Pure Silver Reference 1 Meter RCA Interconnect
Darwin TRUTH Pure Silver Reference 1 Meter RCA Interconnect
Bricasti M1 USB / DSD / Volume Control DAC (New) DA converter
Tellurium Q BLACK DIAMOND Reference USB Cable
Decware ZSTAGE External Triode Output StageTelefunken ECC801S
Audio Research REFERENCE 1 MK II w/Rhodium IEC/NOS Tubes Tube preamp
PS Audio PowerPlant Premier AC Regenerator
Conrad Johnson Premier 12 Mono's 140 Watts Tung-Sol KT120's Tube amp
Salamander Amplifier Stands (2) Synergy System AV Furniture Stand
BMI Shark Jeweler Grade Platinum 9 AWG AC Power Cable
Mad Scientist PC-NEO with Power Purifier 11 AWG Power Cable
Sablon Audio Petite Corona 2.0M 7 AWG AC Power Cable
JPS Labs The Power AC+ 2M 8 AWG AC Power Cable
Synergistic Research Labs Tesla Series SE T1 AC Power Cable
Synergistic Research Labs Tesla Series T1 AC Power Cable
PS Audio Noise Harvester (5) Converts noise to light
OYAIDE RI Beryllium Power Outlets (2)
Blue Circle Audio The Yalu Balula Industrial Surge/Spike Protection
JPLAY v5.2 hi-end audio player turns PC into a digital transport.
Fidelizer Pro Version 6.1
JRiver Media Center 19 Music Software
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almarg's avatar
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almarg
9,670 posts
 
All good points by those who have responded following my post above. I'll add, assuming that the amps are to be directly driven by the M1, that the M1's very low output impedance will act in the direction of reducing sensitivity to cable effects and cable differences. And use of a balanced XLR-to-XLR connection between the M1 and the Claytons might in itself do likewise, depending on how the design of the Clayton's input circuit handles the ground connection on pin 1 of the XLR connector.

In fact I wouldn't rule out the possibility, for that specific application, that if given a thorough and unbiased assessment a pair of inexpensive Mogami Gold Studio XLR-to-XLR cables might do just as well as cables selling for $thousands. See the post by Atmasphere here, and his responses to my follow-up questions later in that thread.

Regards,
-- Al
mitch2
4,037 posts
 
Is Frank not planning to drive the amps from a single-ended preamp? I thought that was why he was talking about adapters. If he will drive the amps directly from the Bricasti, or from a balanced preamp, then you are absolutely correct, he should simply use balanced cables.
fsmithjack's avatar
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fsmithjack OP
712 posts
 
Awesome info guys thanks.

I will ideally like to drive direct form Bricasti and I understand that buying Balanced interconnects is the best way and I will prob at some point but they are pretty expensive. Also, the Bricasti and my preamp are balanced but I have $2500 for 2 interconnects and the balanced version is about $3k. I know I can and prob still sell my singles and by balanced but its a factor.

I have bought and sold thousands and thousands of dollars worth of doe on different speaker cables, interconnects and power cables and could never just buy blue jean interconnects till I could afford more.

I have found in my experience that interconnects have a huge - huge impact on the sound quality. Huge. I know tons of people don't believe in cables and don't want to go there but I am not one of them. I worked really hard at getting my cable to where I have them and prefer not have to get back on that merry go round if can be avoided. Prob enough in itself to not go with the Claytons.

My Darwin Truth IC's out performed Nordost Valhalla's and Cardas Gold Reference and Cardas Clear and there were tons of lesser ones in there both these where the ones I liked the best before they were beaten out straight up by the outstanding Darwin's.

So do you guys don't think there is a shot of rolling with just XLR adapters using the Bricasti direct to the Claytons. Looks like a good amount of work is going to be needed to use these amps in my system does't that seem correct? As always thanks guys.

Was hoping might be able to keep everything the same and plug away with the XLR to RCA Cardas Clear adapters that are good quality that I used with a BAT VK600SE a year or so ago that worked nice. Thx
onhwy61's avatar
onhwy61
5,241 posts
 
So we're going to have to pry your Darwin interconnects from your cold, dead hands?

If the impact of cables is so "huge" then what makes you think the best cable with your CJ amp will still be the right choice with the Clayton? You might have to jump down the cable rabbit hole one more time and repeat all that hard work. In the intervening time period when you are listening to music it won't hurt to use the adapters, it just won't be the optimal setup.
sbank's avatar
sbank
3,379 posts
 
Frank,
You might be missing the significance of Al's last post (and Atmasphere's linked comments) that your cable differences might not be as great in this instance, hence Mogami XLR probably can do the trick at low cost.

Trying your adapters won't hurt, too.

One of those options should be good enough to satisfy and you can always upgrade to balanced Darwins etc. down the road.

I checked the thread figuring you would have bought the Claytons by now based on our phone conversation, but laughed when I saw so many more considerations raised.

FWIW, I agree that adding transformers and extra sets of cables is to be avoided if possible. Cheers,
Spencer
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