Gawdbless,
and I wish you a good dentist to take care of you!
And thanks for your deep insight, always like some weighty contribution (-:
Unsound,
I have tried that 'clipped' link version of Thiel, it also bombs.
I think they want to get some cookies installed and I don't let them. My system don’t like that marketing stuff, neither do I.
But in any way, it looks like that's it for me.
If Wilson, van der Steen, von Schweikert, Hansen, Krell and company is giving me the 'willies' I guess it must the blerry set-up, either in my own head, or in the listening room -- or both.
Your 1st order info is not right, because 1st order = 6dB slope and only one (I repeat ONE) coil or cap will do that. All else is some other 'magic'.
So, 1st order will give you that one and only 90 deg. phase shift with the two drivers involved, and that happens to cancel out (by vector addition) to 0 deg. phase shift -- in the maths at least, and mostly as it is hoped for in the air.
Sit 10' away and all should integrate, so much for the good theory. Amplitude is not part of the 'minimalist package'.
The superior openness is achieved my minimum insertion loss (and like hell that ain't the Thiels either, I know their PCB too) and incidentally neither are the Dunlevy's, which have more stuff on the x-over boards then you'd like to know.
The Green Mountain Audio, seem plenty closer to the pure teaching of 1st order, but that's a completely different story, also I've not heard them --- so no fright-flight there. Now look at their stuff and you'll see it looks nowhere near like those Thiels, and the others I mentioned. Their chief know a-plenty about this here subject, he's freighteningly knowledgable. At least some freight her too...
So nobody got much of a clue in the line of what these speakers x-over do and why they do it, and why some a them give me (only me?) a heart(head)burn. I guess at least we had a good go at it, including Gawdless and his dentist theory.
Greetings,
Axel
and I wish you a good dentist to take care of you!
And thanks for your deep insight, always like some weighty contribution (-:
Unsound,
I have tried that 'clipped' link version of Thiel, it also bombs.
I think they want to get some cookies installed and I don't let them. My system don’t like that marketing stuff, neither do I.
But in any way, it looks like that's it for me.
If Wilson, van der Steen, von Schweikert, Hansen, Krell and company is giving me the 'willies' I guess it must the blerry set-up, either in my own head, or in the listening room -- or both.
Your 1st order info is not right, because 1st order = 6dB slope and only one (I repeat ONE) coil or cap will do that. All else is some other 'magic'.
So, 1st order will give you that one and only 90 deg. phase shift with the two drivers involved, and that happens to cancel out (by vector addition) to 0 deg. phase shift -- in the maths at least, and mostly as it is hoped for in the air.
Sit 10' away and all should integrate, so much for the good theory. Amplitude is not part of the 'minimalist package'.
The superior openness is achieved my minimum insertion loss (and like hell that ain't the Thiels either, I know their PCB too) and incidentally neither are the Dunlevy's, which have more stuff on the x-over boards then you'd like to know.
The Green Mountain Audio, seem plenty closer to the pure teaching of 1st order, but that's a completely different story, also I've not heard them --- so no fright-flight there. Now look at their stuff and you'll see it looks nowhere near like those Thiels, and the others I mentioned. Their chief know a-plenty about this here subject, he's freighteningly knowledgable. At least some freight her too...
So nobody got much of a clue in the line of what these speakers x-over do and why they do it, and why some a them give me (only me?) a heart(head)burn. I guess at least we had a good go at it, including Gawdless and his dentist theory.
Greetings,
Axel