Rules for matching subwoofers to room size

>Knownothing
>I am setting up a new music listening room and will be adding a subwoofer for movies and (mostly) to fill out the full audio spectrum for music. Is there a rule of thumb for subwoofer size/output for a given room volume? My room will be about 11x20x8 WxLxH. Thanks in advance.

As big as possible for output below the fundamental resonance. If you'll be using the same woofer for more than just sub-bass you'll want to pay attention to its output at hiher frequencies.

Above the fundamental resonance you want multiple sub-woofers to minimize the depth of the nulls and height of the peaks, with the references being Todd Welti's paper and Earl Geddes' work.

Earl's solution using three randomly placed woofers with one near the ceiling will provide the best performance; with only one needing to be capable of sub-bass.

>Eldartford
>IMHO, If there is any stereo information below 70 Hz (and with an LP there won't be) the SW will be easily located.

With output levels matched with pink noise, a 4th order low-pass filter, freedom from distortion and port noises, and no nearby structural resonances you'll be fine.

If a subwoofer has a steep crossover at 80 Hz or below you can place it anywhere in the room and not be able to hear its location. The reason is, at 80 Hz and below wavelengths are so long that the ear cannot tell what direction they are coming from because the arrival time difference from one ear to the other is too small of a fraction of a wavelength. Now the 80 Hz figure comes from tests done with pure sine waves; in a sound system where you have main speakers reproducing the upper harmonics which are giving you strong directional cues you can probably run the subs above 80 Hz and they won't give away their location as long as the lower midrange energy is filtered out.

Note that we localize the direction of bass instruments (kickdrum, bass guitar, double-bass, organ, synth) from the higher harmomics, not the fundamental.

In my opinion the main argument for using multiple subs has to do with smoothing out the in-room response, as Drew Eckardt says. The roughness of the in-room bass response is approximately inversely proportional to the number of independent bass sources within the room, but that being said not all multisub placement strategies are created equal. Using multiple subs is not a cost-effective way to maximize output level if that's the top priority; a single powerful ubersub will almost always go louder (and deeper) than its dollar equivalent in multiple smaller subs.

As far as subwoofer output capability, the rule of thumb is that you want your sub(s) to be able to keep up with your mains, but overkill isn't worth paying for. If your mains audibly distort at 105 dB and you have no plans to replace them, there is little point in getting a subwoofer system that can do 115 dB.

Duke
dealer/manufacturer

Now we are talking - thanks all for your input.

I actually do not have the mains (or really much of any of the equipment) I will use in this room yet. Most of my current two channel system will go to my new modest sized living room and I will start from scratch with gear for the new larger audio/video room. I will do my best to set the new room up with as few acoustic problems as possible from the start, and then demo/buy/sell/trade until I find the speakers I like in that space. I am definitely leaning towards floor standing speakers (and amps that can drive them) that can honestly go down to at least 40Hz without straining, and then supplementing lower bass with a sub - thus this thread.

I have a small Klipsch sub in my current small (12'x14') theater room, and while it is a clean little sucker, it will not go much below 30Hz nor pressurize the new larger planned listening room to the levels I seek. I have worked to integrate my current sub with various configurations of speakers and amplifiers - so am pretty handy with a spl meter and test disk. To be honest, even with cutoffs above 80Hz I have a hard time locating the source of the bass once the sub's position and phase is dialed in properly.

The reason I asked the original question is that I believe I have read that there is an inherent limitation on the bass frequencies that can be reproduced related to room length and to a lesser degree room volume. I guess what I really meant - is in a 20 foot long room, how low of bass notes can I reasonably expect to reproduce? And, if there is a limitation, what is the point of getting a sub that can in theory go down to 19Hz if my room can only allow me to hear or resolve 25Hz? I am way off here? Your continued patience and input much appreciated.

This business about not being able to locate a subwoofer is simply untrue in my experience.

Perhaps it is based on experiments with pure sine waves. With the possible exception of a flute, musical instruments don't produce pure sine waves. A drum is often cited as an instrument that energizes a subwoofer, but a drum also produces percussive sounds at much higher frequency. These sounds should eminate from the same location as the deep thump.

Of course, you don't need to decide on a SW location until you get one, and when that happens you can try out various locations and decide for yourself.

Eldartford, note that I specified "steep crossover". The typical 12 dB per octave lowpass filter is too shallow; you need a 24 dB per octave filter if the crossover point is going to be up around 80 Hz or so.

I repeat that the ear cannot localize sounds below 80 Hz; it is physiologically nearly impossible. When you hear the location of a kickdrum, your ears are using the upper harmonics and skin tone to determine its location. The bottom end of the kickdrum sound will seem to come from the same location as the upper frequencies, but it doesn't matter whether it really does or not.

Let me explain a bit further. The ears localize sound from the first .68 milliseconds of a sound impulse, which corresponds to the roughly nine inch path length around your head from one ear to another. At 80 Hz, your ears can barely detect less than 1 wavelength of sound. If a system were to play 1/2 of a wavelength at 80 Hz, with no overshoot or ringing at the end of that 1/2 cycle, you would not even hear it even if it was very loud. One cycle at 80 Hz takes 12.5 milliseconds to complete. So by the time the ear/brain system even begins to detect the presence of a low bass tone, we are way, way past the .68 millisecond sound localization time window.

You are correct that pure sine waves do not exist in music, with the possible exception of the flute. But the only way to study the ear's response at low frequencies in isolation is to use sine waves, which contain zero harmonic energy. There are no other waveforms which contain zero harmonic energy.

Anytime you can hear the location of a subwoofer, the system is either set up incorrectly or the subwoofer's lowpass filter is too shallow.

Knownothing, the ear's ability to hear low frequency energy is unrelated to room size. If it were, you wouldn't even hear midrange energy, much less bass, from headphones - wherein the room is formed by the headphone cupping around your ear.