2. speakers
  3. 1258206377

Like Cain Ben's set up hollow sounding

We have some DIY Cain Ben's with F120A drivers that we just can't seem to tame the hollow sound like listening in a cave? It is a simple system Passion Pak i10 integrated Sony 555es driving the speakers with Element cables. 1st problem noted by others might be the deal breaker the room 25x16 cathedral ceiling 24' up opening to another 25 off the 25 into a lower ceiling room. The speakers are on the 16'x10' heigh wall with the ceiling going up. The speakers they are replacing did quite well Reynaud Twins which were limited in bass but did well other wise. We do not play our music loud but loud or soft the hollow cave effect seems to stay with us. We moved them well into the room helped a little 48" out from the back wall into the room but still there is the sense you are looking into the performance, it kind of brought it out more into the room but still hollow sounding. We stuffed everything we have pillows wool ,,,,,,,,, into them and this helped some but lost some of the live sound? not muffled but not as open? Read one post that said cables Paul Speltz made a difference another post Sistrum stands another thought amp made the difference. Seems this can be a problem with this type of speaker? They look great and at times the sound is right and good bass. Any thoughts I would greatly appreciate them. Thank you
johnbonn
vandermeulen
191 posts
 
Wires are NOT going to do crap. Sorry for the language. I'm aggrevated right now. That's the silliest thing I have read thus far today. Those speakers are designed to sound like that. You cannot in any way change this. No amp, stand, tweak, particle physics phenomenon will change this. Your best bet is placement (which you have done), and deadening (which you have done). Maybe more experimentation is needed in those areas. If you cannot live with the signature of the speakers...either sell them OR enjoy them for what they can do but accept that they have limitations with certain music etc.

Reading this may help you...I hope anyway. Good luck.

http://www.stereomojo.com/Cain%20and%20Cain%20Ben%20Review/CainandCainSingleHornBenReview.htm
johnk's avatar
johnk
1,976 posts
 
Why you use drivers designed for horns in horns a f120a is for AS or sealed cabs not BLH. Thus the poor soud quality in bass. I would suggest adding acusta stuff to BLH mouth and behind driver. Or change driver to 1 designed for BLH use. f120a is a great driver just used wrong like anything else will not perform proper. I seen your BLH for sale on audiogon knew right away this was wrong combo. BLH can add color to sound why I greatly over built our BLH offerings and have now do not offer a BLH. But the main issue with yours is wrong driver used in BLH. Not all wide bands or fullranges are for BLH cabinets.
pryso
1,944 posts
 
Since I'm new to HE speakers, perhaps I should not comment. But a couple of points strike me. It may help to know I recently purchased a pair of Cain & Cain BEN singles.

First, the C&C may have been the inspiration for Johnbonn's speakers but Terry Cain was a woodworker/builder, not a designer. To copy from that design I would think one would look back to Fostex for the original plans and specs.

Second, Cain & Cain used the FE 208E Sigma driver in the BEN cabinet, not the F120A. If the "Vas" spec indicates cabinet volume, the 208E is 60.1 liters while the 120A is 9.9, a difference of over 6X. Could that alone account for the "in the cave" sound? This may be restating Johnk's comments in a slightly different way.

My BENS are in a 20 x 17 x 11 room and sound quite natural and "uncave" like.
johnbonn OP
41 posts
 
Thank you for your thoughts just an update Johnk was right on I pulled the drivers and mouth of the BLH had nothing in it so as he suggested I lined the inside with stuffing and now I believe the speakers sound as Dweller and Vandermuelen describe the signature of the speakers they sound beautiful very natural and open very musical and yes a slight woodsy sound cellos sound authoritative nice body pianos sound open and large...... amazing difference thank you Johnk for the great suggestion you nailed it.
johnk's avatar
johnk
1,976 posts
 
Your welcome. Its what I do. I have a hard time not thinking about loudspeakers and design. Spend my days and nights working on loudspeakers. Wake in the middle of the night to try things out. Crazy but my wife allows such. Dont know why but transducers and loudspeakers have facinated me since I was a small child.
More to discover