Old fart needs help with speakers and power req's

Hey, thanks for the ideas. This is great. But so many speakers and so little time. I had no idea they would be so hard to find. It seems a lot of audio places in my area are by appointment, and while they generally say what brand they carry you don't know if the model you can afford is there.
Plus I'm not a good shopper in the sense that I don't like to bother them if I'm not actually buying.
So after reading a lot of reviews on the speakers, so many seem to say something like, "they were good but really came alive when I gave them like 250 watts". I was just trying to set some power limit and see if there were any that you guys felt were great at that level and then I would go out and listen to them to try and put this thing together.
I have the 4 speakers in that room only because they moved in with me. I stuck with them mainly because I didn't think I had the money to beat them.
The 3000-3000(used) split is something I had not thought of, do you guys buy used equip through this site?
Does tube power equal SS power when a speaker lists how much power they recommend?
Thanks again for your responses, this is a kick.

Whoa.

One-third each rule of thumb: source, amplification, speakers. In that order.

Any good (they are not all) speakers at $4000 are going to reveal all the faults of the source and amplification. And I would go for near-new used gear on Audiogon to get the best value. Suggest keeping the speakers til last. There are tons of great speakers at $2000 used < 3-4 years old. Just my 2c.

Let me say firstly that you can not rely on magazines for advice. I have heard very excellent equipment sound awful when strung together without listening to how they interact with each other, and your room. ..also, don't buy cheap watts...they usually sound lousy. If you really want to do this right, you should train your ears with what good sound sounds like...go to concerts, and get an excellent earphone setup for listening at home. Headphones.com is a great place to go for advice..they know everything there is to know about the subject. What is very wrong (and what I did throughout my life) was to get a component I wasn't ultimately happy with, and move to the next step. All of those incremental steps were very, very costly.

Dear Mr. Old Fart,

Lots of good advice here. I like the NAD amps, the C-375BEE in particular. With that said, you should have an open mind, and ear, at this point. As stated above, I also believe the source is critically important (garbage in - garbage out). I believe the preamp/amp are critically important (quality in - loud garbage out). And the speakers are what actually move air (quality in - half missing out, new stuff added that wasn't there, buzz, buzz, ring, ring, OUCH MY EARS ARE HURTING!) You get the point - its all important. Furthermore, as stated above, good pieces can sound bad together because of lack of system synergy.

Here is what I suggest:

-go out to stores, make an appointment if necessary, and shop with your ears

-tell the sales person what your (FIRM) budget is, what kind of music you listen to, how loud you like to listen, how big your room is and whether you sit in the sweet spot to listen, or listen while practicing your fencing moves (just a guess).

-ask the salesperson in each store to suggest a complete system or two for you to evaluate within your budget, and if calling ahead, have them get the gear ready for you to audition when you come in - don't bias them with specific amounts for amp, speakers, etc. - just see what they come up with that stays inside your total budget

-bring a variety of music with you when you go to audition as suggested above and provide enough time for yourself to listen to a fair bit of music critically through one to several systems - make sure if you are bringing LPs, the showroom has a turntable set up with the demo system

-repeat this at several establishments to get an idea what you like

-if you are uncomfortable shopping in this way, just tell the sales people you are coming back into the audio market after a long break, you need to get an idea of what is out there and if you like what you hear at their store, maybe you will buy it.

I usually believe that if a choice is needed, it is better to spend more on source and amp than on speakers, and that many speakers can reward when fed a quality signal. But I recently did what I am telling you to do at a dealer, and was astounded when auditioning a great sounding system that contained a relatively expensive and competent set of speakers paired with a very budget amp and decent source. You just can never tell when a particular combination is going to sound really good, but you will know when you hear it.

Most dealers are fair and well informed about their gear - after all, most are professional music listeners and gear evaluators. Some less scrupulous dealers might try to unload something that they want to get off their floor, but you will quickly gain a sense for what does and does not sound good to you. Remember that "No." is a complete sentence.

So hopefully when you are done you will have evaluated speakers, amps and sources of all types and prices, and probably identified a few that really float your boat. Then you can ask the question if any of this gear sounds better than what you already have.

246810

I’m an Old Fart in training and of limited means, but I’ve bought nearly 3 complete rigs since I’ve been here… all preowned, predominately. A few items I’ve bought brand new. Speakers, Amp, and some cables were all bought new or as demos. Sold off that which I had too or didn’t need any more as well.

You can click on the handles of all of us members and see our feedback sections which indicate our business here, at least. Not everything bought or sold here is preowned BTW. Ther’s plenty of folks here who’d love to sell you some new or newish goods, they call themselves dealers.

Also, clicking onto the handles ‘system’ link, will show you what they wish to post as their system (s). Although it says VIRTUAL it’s usually real.

Typing in say for instance, ‘tube’ into the main search box will reveal another page. There you can refine that search further by using the other options link just to the right of the GO button. At the bottom of that page you can enter your zip code or some nearby, or you can simply enter a price range “from & to” then select a category. Like tube integrated amp…. Or speakers, full range, monitors, etc….

Having just done that myself, and having very quickly scanned the listings, there’s about a dozen ints there for less than 3K. Doing the same for full range spkrs reveals way more options. Sonus Faber, Coincident, BW, NHT, Paradigm, etc. Probably way more if you go with monitors.

There was a Musical Fidelity int but it’s sold.

AS I’ve had some of the stuff BAT makes, two amps, and one preamp, there is one BAT int w/Remote and an optional phono stage board. Tube preamp, SS amp. I know nothing of the seller. I’d also call BAT and see how much they want for the same phono board…. The seller wants $650. I thought they went for $500 though… but I don’t know.. Maybe it can be worked out between you two should you elect to go with it.

Adding say a pair of the Sonus Faber Dominus or Coincident Super Eclipse to that amp for example ought to be a fair to midlin’ start. And actually pretty nice beginning. It would also allow for you to get a real nice pc for that int like a VA audio Airsine, or Elrod Sig Iii, or Cardas GR. Leaving around a grand for a look see into another TT or a CDP. Even with some entry level spkr cables from Audience, Synergistic Research, etc., for a couple hundred, that’ll still leaves you some for a few accessories.

BAT int’s don’t often come up for sale and BAT support is great. Ask for the serial number and call BAT. Steve will tell you when it was made and it’s history, and if there’s a ph card available.

Those two items retailed for around 10K + when new. That’s all just off the top of my head, and stuff I’d not mind having in another room were I to have the jack and the space or inclination to do another outfit…. Plenty of other combos and choices around too.

The thing around this website is simple enough…. It’s a world wide website. Feedback matters to me. Distance too is a thought. Orig packing or better and certainly having the item insured! You can never count on items remaining in the FOR SALE cat…. As it’s first come first served pretty often. So be prudent and CYA always.

If wise choices are made here and safeguards in place as best are possible, this is a great place to stretch that audio buying buck with. If you’ve any concerns with any seler simply contact some of his/her former sales partners and ask them for more input.

There’s even some JBL speakers for sale now too! Remember, Google is your friend. Copy and paste the item’s name into Google and you’ll wind up with plenty of info on it… or go to it’s website.

Good luck..