Cleaning flood damaged vinyls


My first post here and I was hopeing that someone could help with a perplexing problem. My vinyl collection (~2,000 collected over the past 50 years) was left standing in about 2" of water due to a burst water pipe - all the albums were stacked vertically and now they have a mold/mildew growth on them. My insurance carrier will pay to have them professionally cleaned. Any ideas of who does this? I could sure us the help. I currently clean my albums utilizing a Nitty Gritty with their cleaning fluid and the system that I play them through consists of a Lyra Delos mounted to a Michell Technoarm on a Michell Orbe. Preamp/phono is a Thor Audio TA 2000 connected to Sophia Electric 845 monoblocks. Speakers are older McIntosh XP-25's. CD player/dac is an Ayon Audio CD-2s
aceduck
Miner- for what it's worth, I have owned both. I would actually recommend a DIY ultrasonic and a point nozzle vacuum system. My best results have been obtained with one or another ultrasonic, after pre-cleaning, but rather than using fan dry, vacuum drying using a big Monks. You can buy a used Loricraft for far less than the Monks (or there is a new baby Monks I haven't used). Be curious to know if the Genie has tried this- I have played with and written about this extensively, including visiting the LOC and spending time with their preservation specialists. One of the methods I use is named after the famous Syntax, here on the 'Gon, but it risks damaging the KL because you are not supposed to remove a wet record from the KL (and you really can't do that with the ADS). You need to use both manual/vac clean and ultra sonic for best results, at least with used vinyl, but you didn't ask for my opinion, so take it for what it's worth.
To answer Whart's question about cleaning:

There's nothing "proprietary" about any of my cleaning processes, I simply use the Audio Desk machines with their cleaning agent as the manufacturer intended, and I use the Klaudio machines with frequent distilled water changes. I buy my water from CVS pharmacy in cases of 6 gallons, it's more expensive than Walmart's distilled water, but I like that it is also filtered to 0.5 micron.

I have two Audio Desk machines. At this point, one is really a backup machine, and I have modified the other one to work with 2 gallons of cleaning solution. Dirt settles on the deeper tank bottom, below where the pump pick-up is. I can clean the bigger water tank easily and completely, and I also modified that machine to allow early release of the record, to skip the Audio Desk drying cycle. When I am "double-cleaning" the records go straight from Audio Desk washing into one of my 2 Klaudio machines for the second part of the double-cleaning, and drying. Klaudio fans are more powerful fan and dry better than the Audio Desk, although I always run the full 5-minute drying time before putting records away in new sleeves. I use MoFi and Diskeeper 2.0 sleeves.

I use a water testing meter (measures TDS or "total dissolved solids" in PPM or "parts per million") and check often to see exactly how "dirty" the Audio Desk solution and Klaudio water is getting. I change the Klaudio water when it reaches 5ppm which is still absolutely crystal clear. Some of the increase in PPM can be attributed to small amounts of Audio Desk solution still on the record surfaces from the first cleaning. Audio Desk solution measures 3.5ppm when new.

Klaudio themselves recommend changing water every 100 records, and 5ppm comes up well before then, although of course that's entirely dependent on how dirty the records being cleaned are. The discarded Klaudio water might look perfect, but I know I want the best results for customers, so I check often and maintain strict quality control of what I am doing. It's only half a gallon of distilled water per change for each Klaudio machine, with no expensive cleaning solution added.

Any pre-ultrasonic cleaning steps are equally obsessive, for mucky garage sale finds, and especially for moldy records, which I rarely clean. I have "Vinyl-Stack" and "GroovMaster" label protector "handles" that make manual cleaning easier, and I have used Spin Clean, MoFi enzyme, Sporicidin, and also L'Art Du Son cleaner for pre-treatment. My VPI 16.5 machine obviously vacuums off fluid, but there is always the problem of clean and dirty sides (face down) so cleaning by hand, using dedicated brushes, and thorough rinsing with distilled water avoids risk of cross-contamination. I use a "pump-up" pressurized tank for easy spray rinsing with distilled water. When I need to pre-clean, I use a lot of extra distilled water.

I do all of this to make sure no mold goes into the ultrasonic cleaners, although the Audio Desk cleaning solution must be somewhat antibacterial since I've observed that stuff doesn't grow in old fluid (drained into gallon containers) like it can with Klaudio drain water that's been sitting for months. My precautions might be overkill, but I have an extra set of microfiber rollers that I swap in just for cleaning previously moldy records, and those records have to wait for cleaning right before I dump the Audio Desk cleaning solution at the end of it's useful life. When I clean the Audio Desk and start with new fluid, I also clean and refill the Klaudio machines.

To answer Miner42's question about Audio Desk vs Klaudio:

I know there are fans of both machines, and if you have only one then you might naturally consider it the best, that's human nature perhaps, but I have both machines (two of each) and consider them both equally essential to what I am doing for Record Genie customers..

I started with an Audio Desk in August 2013 and was going to buy a second one that September once I got started, but chose a Klaudio instead, and am glad I did as the machines both work differently to solve the same problem of dirty records. Later on, when I needed to add a third machine for more capacity, I asked customers which machine I should buy, Audio Desk or Klaudio? There was no clear answer, so I added another one of each, which maintained the same balance of cleaning capacity.

Early on, purely by chance, it was discovered that when used together the two different machines could offer even better results, as reported by one of my customers who is a jazz collector and had me double-clean a particularly noisy Blue Note for him. He reported back that the record went from very noisy to amazingly quiet, so we did some more testing, and that was the reason I started offering double-cleaning to other customers. It has been very popular.

In terms of double-cleaning, the Audio Desk's cleaning solution, rollers, and ultrasonic are good for the first step, especially for records with minor crud or fingerprints on them, and the cleaning solution has excellent anti-static properties too. The Klaudio's higher wattage ultrasonic in pure distilled water is the perfect second step, and you might say it's the better choice for "already cleaner" records. Water changes are important, especially the Klaudio, to get the second step closer to a pure rinse effect. I have also experimented with expensive "lab grade" water in the Klaudio machines, but customers (who all knew) did not report any difference that justified the extra expense.

Long answers I know, and maybe not what you were looking for, but hope that helps!

Bottom line is that if you're curious about ultrasonic cleaning, and the Audio Desk and Klaudio machines in particular, then I'd be happy to clean some records for you! Choose some favourites you know well, and have me do a mix of Audio Desk and Klaudio single-cleans, and some double-cleans (both machines), then play them afterwards and compare. Then you'll know how well either (or both) can work with your records, played on your system!

Thanks,
Dave
Dave you are a good guy for giving all that detail. I have come to the conclusion that there is no 'one way' and that with access to a variety of machines, fluids, etc, I used combined approaches. Some records just require more work than others depending on the contamination. Best,
bill hart
Whart - Unfortunately I haven't ever used a Keith Monks or Loricraft, but would love to have one to be able to experiment with, especially a Monks since I grew up in England and it would actually be really nice to use British rather than German and South Korean equipment! I know those machines have a good following and I understand why the results would be good on either, although time consuming because the point vacuum has to follow the entire length of the groove, and separately for each side.

I'm not sure why you're thinking it would be a problem to remove a record from a Klaudio during washing? There's really no need to do that, you can adjust the wash time from 0-5 minutes at any point, and the same for dry time. You could wash records continuously if needed, although I'd recommend a later version for that, as early ones didn't have any cooling, and the water would get hotter than you want. The early version didn't have the dual time selectors or nifty record light either..

I would be fascinated to visit the Library of Congress and talk with their experts about record cleaning and preservation, and I have read quite a bit on their website. Are they using any ultrasonic cleaning processes yet? They recommend the surfactant Tergitol, which I considered trying, but decided against it after checking the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) for safe handling and disposal. Tergitol is readily available online, but is really nasty stuff for the environment, fish etc, and would pose a problem for safe disposal of used fluids. Since the Klaudio machines just use water, and the Audio Desk solution is biodegradable, they are not a problem for disposal and the environment.

My goal for Record Genie is always going to be getting the best results possible while still being practical, and while I'm obviously not afraid of investing in expensive equipment to do that, the resulting service still needs to be priced affordably for customers. I am interested in other technologies of course, not just ultrasonic, and am actively reading whenever I can. Have you any experience with the newer Clearaudio audio machine that uses vibrations (not ultrasonic) and cleans both sides at once? I think it's $5,500 retail, but I've read some good comments on at least one forum where it was compared with ultrasonic..

While I really feel sorry for Aceduck, and think it's an awful situation, it's great to have this discussion about record cleaning - So glad I finally joined Audiogon!
Dave and i compared notes briefly by phone- and since he is new to the 'Gon, his posts lag, b/c they have to be moderated. The issue with the KL is simply that KL (per Tim, the guy I think most customers deal w/ at the US company) has advised that removing a wet record from their machine risks damaging the electronics because water droplets may hit the electronics within the machine. I have a KL that is a year old, and as Dave said, it allows you to 'zero' the dry time. That's not an issue. If KL could eliminate the risk to the machine that I was advised of by their US representative- which would permit wash only without possible damage to the machine, I would score it higher since this is a great way to use it in my estimation. (I don't know if the drying function is also tied to the cooling function, the water in the KL does get hotter if you use it serially at 5 minute wash settings for a number of records and you can hear the auxiliary cooling system -part of the later KL models- kick in. The heat caused by cavitation may actually enhance the cleaning, not sure). The fan dryers in the KL work fine, but dry does not always =clean. I think using the Monks to point nozzle dry the record achieves more- at greater time, greater cost. That's why, for now, I recommended a DIY kit for ultrasonic and used Loricraft combo.
Otherwise, I think Dave and I are on the same page, except I only clean records for myself! I think anybody looking for a service would probably be in good hands with this man, who also has a charming Brit accent.
Agree re Aceduck's situation- over and out!
bill hart